ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

I'm fairly new to this game and while I think I've been doing alright in terms of progress (my highest level character reached level 19) I'm still a bit unsure about certain aspects of character building and I'd appreciate tips from more experienced player.

1) Are there any general guidelines for how to distribute stats? I generally focus on the two "main" stats of whichever class I'm playing, trying to keep them roughly even and neglecting the others but I'm not sure if this is the way to go. Are there any stats which are always good to take? Should I keep raising my main stats "forever" or is it good to get just enough for skills/equipment?

2) What about skill points? I tend to focus on one or two skill categories, occasionally dipping into others if they have useful skills with low requirements. I've noticed there are many opportunities to unlock extra categories but I've never tried it, since it seems I'd never have enough skill points to actually make use of them. How many skill categories is it reasonable to use on a single character? Should I strive to max out a few main ones or are there circumstances where it's reasonable to spread out more? I realize this is very character-dependent but I'd appreciate any insights.

3) How should I think about my use of infusions? I generally try to get some kind of healing and teleportation, but beyond that I'm unsure of which ones are good to take. Is it always a good idea to unlock more slots or should I focus on other areas of my character?

I'm not necessarily interested in min/maxing or playing completely optimally, but It'd be nice to hear how some more experienced players think about these things.

PoetApe wrote:I'm fairly new to this game and while I think I've been doing alright in terms of progress (my highest level character reached level 19) I'm still a bit unsure about certain aspects of character building and I'd appreciate tips from more experienced player.

1) Are there any general guidelines for how to distribute stats? I generally focus on the two "main" stats of whichever class I'm playing, trying to keep them roughly even and neglecting the others but I'm not sure if this is the way to go. Are there any stats which are always good to take? Should I keep raising my main stats "forever" or is it good to get just enough for skills/equipment?

2) What about skill points? I tend to focus on one or two skill categories, occasionally dipping into others if they have useful skills with low requirements. I've noticed there are many opportunities to unlock extra categories but I've never tried it, since it seems I'd never have enough skill points to actually make use of them. How many skill categories is it reasonable to use on a single character? Should I strive to max out a few main ones or are there circumstances where it's reasonable to spread out more? I realize this is very character-dependent but I'd appreciate any insights.

3) How should I think about my use of infusions? I generally try to get some kind of healing and teleportation, but beyond that I'm unsure of which ones are good to take. Is it always a good idea to unlock more slots or should I focus on other areas of my character?

I'm not necessarily interested in min/maxing or playing completely optimally, but It'd be nice to hear how some more experienced players think about these things.

these are all BIG questions and many answers are class-specific. i suggest you look at the class guides in the forums and try to get the hang of a few classes. You have to get right through the game several times to really understand how to build a character to survive long term, which is why guides are so helpful. I've done one on solipsist, and there are excellent guides on most classes.

for infusions, I would simply say that the top players generally (but not always) have a wild, movement infusion, regen, and eventually heroic for starters. those who can get shield runes often do as well.

another great way to experiment is to play the arena campaign, rather than the main campaign, and just try different approaches to character building. nothing beats trial and error.

on stats, there are very different views among players. most classes have one or two primary stats. after that, good advice for beginners is to pump CON, but more experienced players often skip CON altogether, and get extra hps otherways.

and my final piece of advice is, always play roguelike. i find the discipline of keeping one character alive no matter what taught me MUCH more about the game than lots of chances to resurrect. even on insane I am playing roguelike, as it forces you to really think hard about how to succeed.

I'm sure others will respond differently to me, but that's my two bob's worth !!!

I'm still a new player, but for what it's worth... I think the strongest characters have both a very focused concept, and a strong set of tools for dealing with or avoiding tricky situations. And while yes you have to survive through all stages of the game, understanding the last battle and building a character that has a good chance of winning is the final test of a build.

Try linking your characters here for specific feedback, I found the one you're playing now:
http://te4.org/characters/190126/tome/0 ... f774f53070

I like to get a 4th inscription at level 10, open a Category at 20, 5th inscription and 2nd Category at about the same time around level 36 (one involves doing something in the game, not to spoil.)

I like to add some Will, but not Con unless the class is Con based. And you can only raise your main stats to 60, so with over 150 points to distribute over a game, you can max two and still have 50+ points to distribute (playing Normal.) Definitely max the two quickly, sprinkling in some Will if you get new talents but lack the stamina/mana to use them, and Cunning is always nice as a 3rd primary stat for extra crits and saves. You will want to save items that give +Con to qualify for Thick Skin, only wear them when you're leveling up that talent.

For Bulwark, I'd open Dirty Fighting and Warcries, not sure what order though. Dirty Fighting gives you more one-on-one control, and Backstab works well with Shield Pummel's stun, and even with only a point in them all the talents are great. Warcries gives you some crowd control options, and ranged damage, two other important tools that the Bulwark lacks. And you should be putting points into Weapons Mastery as fast as you can, a great offense is the perfect complement to your great defense. A few points in Accuracy is important, too. Conditioning is not important to invest heavily in, as you get many good ways to remove negative status effects throughout the game. Look for a Wild infusion which removes either Physical or Mental. A point in each talent is probably good enough. As a Cornac you have no racial Category and should unlock another generic if you have it available/gain access to one through an escort quest as you'll have plenty of generic points to spend and not enough good options to spend them on. Light if you find a Sun Paladin would be great (then you'd be investing in Magic as a 3rd stat.) As a Cornac I'd get a 4th inscription to start, a Generic category at 10, and the rest the same as above. Or you could consider Antimagic. I don't enjoy the equipment restrictions, but it should help to cover your biggest weakness, mages. And you should be putting more into Dex and less (or none) into Con.

In general to answer the question of how to distribute skill points, many skills just need one point to open the door, then give very diminishing returns. Unless there's a synergy you're trying to build which multiplies the diminishing returns, leave these skills at 1 point. Other skills are essential for your build, your bread and butter, and these should be maxed of course. Leftover points are gravy.

For inscriptions I like Movement over any other escape. You only use Teleport when in a pinch, right? Unless you've already cleared the whole level, there's a good chance that you'll be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire. For early game it's okay because who cares if you die, not much invested yet. But get rid of it by level 20 at the latest. And I prefer Healing over Regen. Sure it's less health back, but it doesn't take a turn, the effect is immediate, the cooldown isn't as long, and it removes a poison or wound. Wild Physical then Phys/Mental is a must. Shield then Heroism when you find one. And the 5th inscription is another Movement. Though if you get some good equipment that helps with mobility, or you open up Field Control or Battle Tactics (and get Step Up maxed) then you might try one of the attack runes instead of a 2nd Movement. Some of them have good debuffs, are crowd control which you need, and will clear you of a status effect. And maybe a great Shield over any healing at all, especially if you open up the Light category.

1) If you achieve level 50 you get enough stat points to max out 3 and a bit stats. It is usually best to focus your stats on what gives direct benefits to your talents. For example, strength if you use weapon damage; magic if you use spells; willpower if you use mind powers...etc.

2) You get enough skill points to invest heavily in 4 categories, but you can always spread it thinner. Many talents will not be beneficial to max out.
You need to find a good balance between having strong abilities and having a diverse range of abilities. Enemies have varying strengths and weaknesses, so you don't want to be a one trick pony. Nor do you want to invest in so many talents that you don't have enough damage per turn output.

3) Inscriptions are your emergency items. They are for when things go wrong and you need something extra. It is almost always worth getting an extra inscription slot at level 10. Consider what your weaknesses are when choosing what inscriptions to use. Do you need healing, status curing, escape options? (And remember to have more than one option, like when choosing talents.) Also, do not underestimate status curing.

Finally, experiment and have fun. All advice is based on out of date data and may no longer be valid. The game isn't overly difficult once you understand what is going on and you can have fun on normal difficulty with interesting and non optimal builds and still win.

Thanks for the advice! I realize that it's difficult to give general tips so I should probably give a more specific examples. My bulwark died stupidly but I just started a berserker where I tried to keep these tips in mind: http://te4.org/characters/190126/tome/0 ... b67b60138e

My plan going forward is to unlock Light (which I got from a quest) and maxing out Death Dance and maybe Execution. Any extra skill points I'll probably put into Combat veteran before unlocking Warcries with my next category point. For stats I'll try to go with strength and magic (for Light obviously) with some dexterity sprinkled in. I will obviously need better Inscriptions as well, and I'm thinking about getting a Shielding rune instead of healing, since I will be able to heal with the Light talents. I can still keep regeneration for some extra emergency healing.

How does that sound?

For zerker, you should get 1/4/0/0 in Conditioning asap. It protects you against a massive number of dangerous status effects.
Death Dance is fine at 3 points for most of the game, same for Stunning Blow. Execution is decent but not a priority.
You should 5/5 Berserker Rage immediately, the stun resistance is very useful and the offensive bonuses allow you to skimp on Combat Accuracy.
Getting 4 points in Rush relatively early helps vs ranged/casters.
Your first category point should nearly always be Bloodthirst. Unstoppable is one of the strongest defensive abilities in the game, and Bloodbath is substantial healing and completely takes care of all stamina regeneration issues. This also means Combat Veteran is a waste of points once you get Bloodbath running, as the stamina/life granted by it massively outstrips Quick Recovery/Fast Metabolism.
Getting a movement+heroism infusion would be very useful.
Light is good, but less so on Berserker. The primary draw of the tree (for classes without shields) is Providence, and Unflinching Resolve takes care of nasty status effects in a similar manner.

In general activated weapon skills you can spread thin on and spell-like skills take deep investment. This is because weapon damage scales off of weapon level, some combination of stats, physical power, and a mastery skill as well as the active weapon talent while non-weapon damage (spells, mindpowers, nature powers, shouting at people, etc.) scale off just the skill level and spellpower or mindpower or something similar. 1 pointing a bunch of weapon talents gets you a bunch of better than bump attacking skills that will scale in damage without ever investing anything more while 1 pointing a bunch of spells will get you a bunch of ways to do utterly terrible damage. Sometimes weapon skills are worth deep investment for reasons other than damage, or in the endgame when you have nothing else you want to invest in, but damage scaling just from keeping your equipment up to date and increasing the stats your weapon uses is adequate.

Yeah, on berserker you pretty much need only 3-1-3-0 on the first tree for most of the game and you've got enough damage for anything the game throws at you (you should eventually max execute though), You focus on maxing the bloodthirst talents first, and eventually also get blinding speed once you're done with that (or even get it before if you feel you're beefy enough)

This is my last winner if you wanna check

http://te4.org/characters/168399/tome/7 ... 2f05a35f30

I'll keep that in mind for my next berserker run - I think it's a bit too late to turn this specific character around. Thanks anyway for all the tips!

1. You're doing the right thing with stats. May want to throw some points into strength even for classes that don't use it for their skills, in order to wear armors/wield weapons & carry more. Some people go for cunning to increase crit chance. But always make sure you are putting enough in the stats you need to get/increase your class skills.

2. With skill points, it's good to put at least one point in each skill to give yourself a variety of attack, defense and utility options, and then later focus points in the skills you use the most to max them at 5 points. Do this because it's sub optimal to be auto-attacking enemies while your skills are on cooldown, you want to have a skill available to use every turn.
Certain key skills get a huge upgrade at a certain number of points put in, so go for those first.
Use caution with categories you have to spend a category point to unlock. You may want to get another inscription instead. But it's good to experiment with your first try on a class, then refine your approach for the next go. If you want to do this Cornac is a great starting race with their free category point.

3. Inscriptions, you want to get ones that compliment your class. If a certain class has it's own great mobility or status removal skills, or healing, you won't typically get a rune or infusion that does the same thing. For instance Archmage class gets it's own Phase Door and Teleport as class skills so you wouldn't need a Phase Door rune. Wilder classes tend to get their own healing skill so Regeneration/Healing infusions are less necessary for them. Temporal classes get Time Shield so you won't need a Shielding rune as much as other classes.

If you're playing a melee fighter that has mostly single target attack skills, the AOE elemental runes work awesome. If you're a hybrid or a caster with lots of AOE, you can go for mobility, healing, control, defensive, or status removal inscriptions. If you don't need the category points to unlock skill trees, definitely spend them unlocking Inscription slots.

I am very much interested with weapons skills as this would make more fun, wherein I could choose the kind of weapon to carry with.
I would love to learn things on how to manage my steps not to fail from the gameplay.


________________________
wooden sword

I usually like to put at least one point in every skill, to as least try them out. That probably won't work with rouge-like runs, though.

Since I am kind of a "new" player as well, I tend to just put points in everything, and then put points into what I believe to be the best skills for me personally. I like to have my options open.

I'm also a new player, but like to take a scientific approach. I look up winners for a race/class and then build a spreadsheet where I can see the median, mode, and average points put into each skill of maybe 10 characters. I weight more heavily the Insane and Nightmare winners, and then look for a pattern. If the median and mode match, that's almost always what I'll go for. I add up the points to make sure I'm not over or under budgeting, and maybe make a couple adjustments to my taste. Not a perfect method for getting a successful build, but it gives me an idea what direction to head in. One thing I notice is the variety of builds which will produce a winner, even on Nightmare. So if playing on normal I wouldn't worry too much, just put your points where you like. Winning I think is much more about playstyle, careful over aggressive, and having half a brain for tactics. Well, and some experience helps, too, to know what you're getting into.

Just for fun, here's the build for a Nightmare Ogre Sun Paladin that my method came up with. I really wanted to go 2-hander and may still, with the Ogre skill that lets you wield one with one hand, but sadly almost none of the winners put any points into that category... I did go for Blinding speed even though only a couple other builds did that, but notably the Insane winner I looked at did that, too.

Base stats
Str: 60
Dex: 60
Con: 30
Mag: 60
Wil: 15
Cun: 15

Class:
Technique: Combat techniques

• Rush: 1
  Precise Strikes: 1
  Perfect Strike: 1
  Blinding Speed: 5

Celestial: Guardian

• Shield of Light: 5
  Brandish: 1
  Retribution: 5
  Crusade: 4

Celestial: Crusader

• Absorption Strike: 1
  Mark of Light: 1
  Righteous Strength: 5
  Flash of the Blade: 4

Celestial: Sun

• Sun Ray: 3
  Path of the Sun: 2
  Sun's Vengeance: 5
  Suncloak: 2

Celestial: Combat

• Weapon of Light: 1
  Wave of Power: 1
  Weapon of Wrath: 2
  Second Life: 5

Technique: Shield Offense

• Shield Pummel: 2
  Riposte: 4
  Shield Slam: 1
  Assault: 1

Generics:
Technique: Combat Training

• Thick Skin: 5
  Armor Training: 5
  Combat Accuracy: 5
  Weapons Mastery: 5
  Dagger Mastery: 0

Race: Ogre

• Ogric Wrath: 1
  Grisly Constitution: 5
  Scar-Scripted Flesh: 1
  Writ Large: 5

Celestial: Light

• Healing Light: 4
  Bathe in Light: 1
  Barrier: 3
  Providence: 5

Celestial: Chants

• Fortitude: 5
  Fortress: 0
  Resistance: 0
  Light: 0

Prodigies: Eternal Guard, Spectral Shield