ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Here is my dead Berserker at level 13. I want to advance further in this game even though I just started playing. Any idea what I did wrong on this build? I want to learn.

http://te4.org/characters/108419/tome/9 ... 18226f2df5

take this relative newbie, as you will. but first off, diversify your skills more. almost every skill in the game gives diminishing returns. rush eventually you probably want to get to 10.. but you want other buttons, too. and level 13 is really early to have 5/5 inscriptions. and is SUPER SUPER early to be going into the old forest. generally you wanna hit all the intro dungeons (each of the 3 main starts has 2).

http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=3 ... guide+list has a list of guides (is even a relatively recent zerker one.

all in all, your generics dont seem to be too far gone. alot of things are 1 point wonders. also... unless you find a better one (read: almost never before you leave maj'eyal) general rule is dont switch out your initial wild rune.

hope some of this helps ya.

Here are my thoughts:

1. The combat log at the bottom shows you getting hit by at least 3 enemies. Try to avoid getting in that situation. When there are multiple enemies, retreat to a hallway so only one can hit you at a time. Having mobility skills helps with this as well. I also see that you were stunned when you died; this disabled some of your skills and prevents all skills from recharging, so it's very dangerous and needs to be removes quickly. Which leads me to the next point...

2. I see you unlocked more inscriptions (which is good), but your choice of inscriptions isn't the best. Phase Door rune is not very useful because its range is short and you can't control where you go; you might end up just a few spaces away from where you are now. The blind from Sun infusion is nice, but it's not as helpful as some of the other options. Acid Wave is decent, but magical debuff are usually not as critical to remove as mental or physical debuffs. Having 2 Regeneration infusions isn't really ideal unless you use the Wild-gift/Fungus category.

Next time, I would recommend keeping your starting Wild(physical) infusion since it has the minimum cooldown of 12 seconds and lets you remove nasty things like pins and stuns. Try to find a Movement infusion in towns like Last Hope or Zigur; Movement is hugely useful for preventing stun/pinning/daze and for either running into combat or running away. It's fine to keep your starting Regeneration infusion and upgrade it as you find better ones. Shielding runes and Healing infusions are also very useful and can take the place of the Regeneration infusion, or be used in addition. For the 4th inscription, I would definitely take a Teleport rune. Unlike Phase Door, Teleport rune has a minimum range of 15, so it's guaranteed to send you to a different area of the dungeon. If you're in a really bad spot, chances are using Teleport will put you in a better position. If you go for the 5th inscription, I would recommend either Wild(mental) or Biting Gale, both of which can remove mental debuffs.

As you get to the higher levels, you can swap out some of your early-game slots for things like Heroism infusion and a 2nd Movement infusion. It will be a while before you have to worry about that though.

3. I would recommend putting at least one point in more of the talents instead of going for 5/5 on the low-level talents right away. Not only would this give you more options, but it also makes stuns less debilitating; when you get stunned, 3 of your talents are randomly put on cooldown. The more talents you have, the less likely any specific one will be disabled by stun. If you look at Rush you'll also see it has range 11, which is outside your vision range and not really necessary; try leaving Rush at 2/5 or 3/5 until later.

I would definitely put some points in Warshout. Applying confusion will make enemies much less dangerous, since they have 50% chance to act randomly and can't use certain kinds of abilities. Since it affects multiple enemies, this could help you in situations where you're outnumbered as well. You could easily take points out of the Combat Veteran tree, which is generally considered a weak talent line. You should definitely put points in Unflinching Resolve, since this will passively remove nasty debuffs.

When you reach level 20, I recommend unlocking the Bloodthirst category. The Unstoppable talent is essential for late-game survival.

4. I can't tell which dungeons you cleared from the character sheet, but I recommend clearing all tier-1 dungeons for loot and xp before starting the tier-2 dungeons. T1 is Trollmire, Norgo's Lair, Ruins of Kor'Pul, Heart of the Gloom, Scintillating Caves, and Rhaloren Camp. T2 is Old Forest, the Maze, Sandworm Lair, and Daikara.

5. Cornac is probably not the ideal race for Berserker. The extra category helps during the early game, but you get 4 more category points over the course of the game and I think you'll run out of good uses for them. Higher would probably be a better choice, since the 4th racial talent lets you use skills without spending resources for several turns, and eventually you'll be spending a lot of stamina. Unstoppable alone costs 120 stamina, even before fatigue.

IejirIsk wrote:take this relative newbie, as you will. but first off, diversify your skills more. almost every skill in the game gives diminishing returns. rush eventually you probably want to get to 10.. but you want other buttons, too. and level 13 is really early to have 5/5 inscriptions. and is SUPER SUPER early to be going into the old forest. generally you wanna hit all the intro dungeons (each of the 3 main starts has 2).

http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=3 ... guide+list has a list of guides (is even a relatively recent zerker one.

all in all, your generics dont seem to be too far gone. alot of things are 1 point wonders. also... unless you find a better one (read: almost never before you leave maj'eyal) general rule is dont switch out your initial wild rune.

hope some of this helps ya.

Thank you so much for taking the time to post that. It really means a lot to me.

I was doing wonderful until I got into what I think was the third level in the old forest? It's the one with that brick building in the middle with all of those mobs that look like thiefs. I cleared out the entire room without much problem, but as I got further into the building, I ran into this incredibly powerful mob. He was in the top part - a few rooms in. He was casting spells or something, and he hit like a truck. I went through all of my lives on that one mob. I almost killed him on one of the tries, but he got me.

Rush was really helping me out, but I can see what you mean about diminishing returns. Fast Metabolism and Vitality made my character almost invinsible up to the point I died, and I had an INCREDIBLE tier 5 charm (+2 armor, +15% cut immunity, 72 armor on activation and 70% hardiness). I did an escort quest that got me Premonition, and I had Spectral Blade that I switched in and out for the mana to keep it up at all times.

I was doing incredible. Dying was a major shock. I felt as if I was set up to make a deep run and was kind of left scratching my head.

As for the category points and inscriptions...

The reason I went with Cornac over Higher was because a big part of Higher's racial bonus is the bonus to magic and willpower that I don't need, and with the faster leveling and category points, I felt like Cornac was the better option if I was intent on rolling a human. Additionally, I found no way to use the category points. I read that they can be used for certain talents, but I failed to figure out a way to do that. So I used the ones I had to get the maximum number of inscriptions and made Phase Door my number one priority for escape, and threw on an extra life regeneration out of safety.

I guess I still have a lot to learn. I will take your advice to heart. Thanks again.

Wow, thank you too, Effigy. I will certainly peruse your post and use it as a reference from now on. Thank you so much!

TOMEfanatic wrote:I went through all of my lives on that one mob. I almost killed him on one of the tries, but he got me.

Ah, this is a common pitfall. If you find yourself in a bad situation like this, the better option is to escape and come back later, after you gain a couple levels somewhere else. If you die, you can ask the Eidolon to take you somewhere else and it will bring you to the worldmap.

TOMEfanatic wrote:The reason I went with Cornac over Higher was because a big part of Higher's racial bonus is the bonus to magic and willpower that I don't need, and with the faster leveling and category points, I felt like Cornac was the better option if I was intent on rolling a human. Additionally, I found no way to use the category points. I read that they can be used for certain talents, but I failed to figure out a way to do that. So I used the ones I had to get the maximum number of inscriptions and made Phase Door my number one priority for escape, and threw on an extra life regeneration out of safety.

When you open the level-up screen, you'll see certain talent categories that are grayed out. If you have a category point available, you can click on the name of a grayed-out category to unlock it. You can also click on the name of an already-unlocked category to increase its mastery by 0.2, although that's not usually recommended.

Don't worry too much about the racial stat bonuses. In the grand scheme of things, 2 points more or less in a given stat is not that important. What really defines a race are the talents it gives you, or the extra category for Cornac. The XP penalty is worth considering, but it's generally not too much of an issue and Higher's penalty is pretty mild.

Don't feel like you have to pick the "ideal" race. It is a game, after all, so go with what's fun for you. I would consider Higher or Shalore the ideal races for Berserker though. Higher for resource manage, or Shalore for extending Unstoppable through their Timeless talent.

one of the other main draws of cornac, is extra generic points, or the ability to use escort catagories. (or antimagic)

and yea, sounds like ya found the boss

also: if the texts warns you of opening a door... be very very careful about it.

Effigy,

I am building a new Berserker and have him at level 10. Is this an improvement?

http://te4.org/characters/108419/tome/b ... 1fc58c747f

Looks better, although you're using a one-handed weapon and have talents in Two-handed Assault. I assume you're just using it temporarily until you find a good two-hander. Also, I'd replace one of your Heal infusion with Teleport rune or Movement infusion when you find one. Probably a good idea to check the various shops once you have gold. Try to get 3/5 Unflinching Resolve over the next couple levels too.

Thank you so much for your help, Effigy. I really do appreciate it. I am in love with this game. Having never played an ACTUAL rogue-like before, this is quite an experience for me. I played Dungeons of Dredmor, but I can already see that DoD is like the milk of the genre whereas TOME is the meat and potatoes. I am huge on Fantasy Role-Playing and this is just a whole new thing. Knowing that success is not guaranteed makes it so much better - like old D&D sessions with a strict DM where dead is dead.

I know one thing for sure. This is a game I plan on playing for a very long time, and your advice and the link you posted is a major help to me.

Thank you.

Yeah, it's a great game. I've been hooked on it for months and I'll probably still be playing it years from now.

Kind of a random comment, but one of the things I like about this game is death. Although there is a back story, I find that the most interesting part of this game is learning what will work and what won't work. Every death gives you a little bit more information -- another piece of the puzzle. While this is a common feature of rouge-like games, I find that in other games (and I'm talking about the really old school games like rogue, hack, larn, nethack, etc) you end up just memorizing minutia and tricks (you *must* have this object, you *must* use that technique on that level, etc). With tome I find that there are many, many ways to be successful and you are just learning what kind of tactics work best.

The feeling of being invincible only to be slaughtered easily by a mob is a common one for me. But this isn't so different from real life, is it? It's easy to go through life thinking, "I'm doing awesome" only to fail suddenly and without warning. Of course, someone who has failed that way before will see it coming from a mile away, but if you have never seen it, it can be invisible to you. Actually, there is a saying in the game of Go - "Lose your first 50 games as quickly as possible". I think think this is good advice.

So don't worry about dying/failure It is an important part of the game!

Wow, what a cool post, Mikekchar. I agree with everything you said. Really neat observations.

As I alluded to before, for me it has a degree of legitimacy that other fantasy role-playing games lack. As a child of the 90s, I do recall the 80s somewhat, and the long sessions of Dungeons and Dragons that my father would sometimes get into with his friends. Now, TOME isn't based on any particular ruleset (which is a good thing - too restrictive), but it draws inspiration - though not quite as much as Nethack does. Combined with permadeath (which is how D&D should be played IMO), and to me, it feels genuine. I am having a blast.

The main thing that stands out about your builds is that you seem to be underestimating the value of condition removal. You should put a lot more emphasis on the following: Unflinching Resolve, Berserker Rage, Wild Infusion, mainly physical ones. Waiting out conditions can be quite lethal, you should aim to remove stuns as soon as they are applied. Berserkers can get away with a bit less condition removal due to Unflinching Resolve, but you are better off having too much, rather than too little. You should also aim to get 100% stun resist from your gear if possible.

I would also recommend unlocking the Blood Thirst tree at level 10, this tree is really the heart of the Berserker and will give you better stamina/health regen than the combat veteran tree you are investing in. Also crits, and other passive boosts.

Hey TOMEFanatic,

First, allow me to give some praise to you, yourself. I've seen too many "gamers" who got their hands on a roguelike, crying "This game is too hard, this game sucks!!!1!" without even trying to understand the underlying principles and mechanics. After all those pseudogamers, your posts, eager for understanding, are like the Blood of Life to me. I thank you for that.

Now, to give some (hopefully useful) advice as well:

1) It was already mentioned that Cornac is not the best race for starters. The extra category point is definitely a great boon ... if you know where to put it, and Berserkers, well ... My advice here would be this: Try a Dwarf Bulwark. This is a character optimized for defense (you can get 65% stun immunity by the end of the very first dungeon from talents themselves!), Dwarves are naturally resilient by both their starting stats (and HP gain) and their racial talents (Power for Money may be the best use of gold in this whole game), and while appearing defensively, this character can become quite an offensive beast as soon as you can grab Assault on charlevel 12. Also, being very defensive and resistant, this character is quite forgiving to errors you might make.

2) Picking a Dwarf as a race has one more consequence - all of the races available right off the bat, without unlocks, have six Tier 1 dungeons available. However, Dwarves get two extra Tier 1 dungeons (some other combos get extra starting dungeons as well, but you have to unlock them first). More practice for you and more XP for your character.

3) It has already been said here that it's good for you to go through the Tier 1 dungeons first - but not only for the extra XP your character may gain, but also to learn that there are many, many ways monsters can attack you.

4) That being said, a right-click on any creature brings up their context menu, containing a Inspect Creature command. Take your time and study this screen carefully, you may find what threats and weaknesses you are up against, especially when going against bosses and the like.

5) Sometimes, you may happen upon an enemy who's beyond your powers. If you're playing on Adventure, then if you die, you can get bailed out of most locations from the Eidolon plane. If you feel that you're going to slay that particular enemy the second time, then go for it if you wish. But if the same enemy or the surrounding circumstances kill you the second time, then just get the F out. You can always return later ...

6) ... but it's better to prevent this outcome. Always, and I mean ALWAYS know when to run. I can not stress this enough. If something got you under, say, 30% of your health and/or you're stunned/pinned/confused, it may be already too late for you. A Wild infusion (especially against physical effects) is always nice to have to remove stuns and pins. Movement lets you run out to safety, and Teleport rune is an instant bailout (but given its unpredictable nature, it can bring you into even more trouble, if you land in an area you did not clear yet). And if you can somehow run from danger for 40 turns, Rod of Recall works as well.

7) Remember that the general rule of Roguelikes is "Die and learn". If you die, think about what you did wrong. Sometimes (quite often, in fact), the mistake was not running from the fight right away.

... and generally, just have fun. Judging from your posts, you're more than willing to learn and you like this game, so I'm pretty certain that a victory post of yours will be hanging here soon enough. I wish you good luck with that.

PS: Oh, and 9) Don't worry to ask questions in the ingame chat as well.