ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

If I'm actually playing an Anorithil and find this, when should I change it out? At what point is the % damage of a staff, or the stats better than having -1 on all 3 important spells?

Difficult to answer.
Since you can always just swap back to Eclipse, I suggest you experiment.

It's basically a DPS calculation, so whatever the damage of the spell is divided by its cd.

Do that for both items and you can figure out which is best.

(This is without taking into account spell crit chance).

Mex wrote:It's basically a DPS calculation, so whatever the damage of the spell is divided by its cd.

Do that for both items and you can figure out which is best.

(This is without taking into account spell crit chance).

DPS... very interesting. Do you mean damage per hit or damage per turn? Or maybe... damage per second?

Seconds are a unit of time and in a turn based game it would therefore be the equivalent of turns (DPT).

DPS and DPT are both inaccurate: not all actions take a whole turn.

So IMHO there's not much point in being pedantic about using one over the other.

Doctornull wrote:DPS and DPT are both inaccurate: not all actions take a whole turn.

So IMHO there's not much point in being pedantic about using one over the other.

Heheh, I apologize, and by the way, pedantic is an excellent word!

Doctornull wrote:DPS and DPT are both inaccurate: not all actions take a whole turn.

So IMHO there's not much point in being pedantic about using one over the other.

DPS is kind of a non-sequitor in a "turn" based game.

DPT can be used but doesn't really capture speed very well, but for something that is CD limited it is essentially accurate.

For bump attacks, I guess, you would want to use Damage per Energy but you could convert that into DPT.

I don't think DPT is a bad way to express the math for a talent. My understanding of the mechanics (which may be incorrect) is that a number of things are rate limited by "turns". So for example you cast a spell that has a CD of 6, that is 6 turns, irregardless of any type of speed, before you can cast it again. Now if you are super fast you may be able to do something else for your total DPT and that is where it gets complicated.

Even for things like Eye of the Tiger, my testing of it indicates you would only get -1 CD once per turn and thus the EoT + spell interaction is still basically turn based.

So I would say that when analyzing a CD based spells in isolation DPT is usually fairly useful and perhaps even better because its a simplified abstraction that doesn't lose much.

But when trying to analyze overall damage in total the abstraction breaks down and you need to use energy. For spells with no CD like Channel Staff this would also be true even when analyzed in isolation.

For a spell like eclipse you will do X damage every Y turns and the contribution to your total damage can be usefully expressed in the terms of Y. This will be true no matter what your speeds are. Speeds come into the equation when you want to know what ELSE you can do in those Y turns and figure out your entire "attack chain" or whatever. Which arguably may be the more important thing anyway.

Of course all of this is highly dependent on playstyle in that if you 3 shot everything and then rest 10 turns a 6 turn vs a 5 turn CD won't mean jack except possibly in longer fights involving more enemies or a boss etc.

Anyway you can normalize non-CD things to turns if your analysis is trending towards involving many CD bound abilties or you can do your analysis with purely energy which is probably easier if you have only a few key CDs and other things that leverage massive speed. But in the end you do need to use turns as important event markers when doing your analysis.

cctobias wrote:irregardless of any type of speed

cctobias wrote:irregardless

I'm sorry, you've just lost this debate.

You can use that word to troll pedants, but you can't use it while being a pedant.

Doctornull wrote:

cctobias wrote:irregardless of any type of speed

cctobias wrote:irregardless

I'm sorry, you've just lost this debate.

You can use that word to troll pedants, but you can't use it while being a pedant.

Okey doke.