ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Has anyone actually gotten this achievement? I know about killing Aeryn to get the extra levels, but does anyone have any good tips/a sun pala build for this achievement? Thanks

If memory serves, there are no legitimate wins with that achievement. And with good reason.

On the other hand, of you're feeling particularly ambitious... There's an opening for a "Never There and Back Again" guide. Just... Be prepared to lose early, lose often, and fight massively overleveled enemies, such as level 32 Orc Cryomancers against level 8 Sun Paladins.

Really? Are there really no legitimate wins with that achievement? wow. Haha. That makes sense considering if you look at the real time game statistics it shows up with some of the wins being, "Yeek Archmage" As for the guide goes, are you saying that I make one myself or that there is currently already one?

Sounds like there isn't one, as without an actual legit win it's all just theoryhammer

I believe there is actually a legitimate win, though I can't recall by whom off hand.

Tomisgo has made a legitimate win with Sun Paladin for this achievement.

Ah okay so at least it's possible. I'm not the most advanced player myself but I think I understand the basic concept of how to do it. Does anyone have a guide I can follow? Or is that something I must figure out myself?

I think that win was done by drowning some of the paladins for some free xp.
Not really sure, though.

In any case, I think that trick was fixed a while back.
With sun paladins being overpowered, at the moment, due to their changes, now might be the best time to do it.

These ones might be legitimate:
http://te4.org/characters/39318/tome/67 ... c50b4523e7
http://te4.org/characters/110035/tome/8 ... 010367c2f1

There are two reasons this achievement is not common.

The first is the difficulty, the second is the low interest level (endless orc ambushes). Below I will consider a Shalore Anorithil.

Early game: Drown Aeryn (Level 9). Then do the Slazish Fens for gold, and putz around the Unremarkable Cave, which is not overly difficult, especially if you could buy a movement infusion (or a teleportation rune). Of course, accidents can always happen, but one-on-one fights are usually winnable (Jumpgate is a help). You will be level 13 or so coming out (kill both the NPCs).

Orc patrols: Any strategy here would be about how to build optimally. But if you are playing roguelike, more important is to have enough patience to always have a safe exit at the first sign of trouble. When you reach level 36, then is the time to go Rak'shor (I consider fixing the Prides at lower levels to be dirty-handed). You can beat the Greatmother Orc, though I don't think it makes much difference (you can even do this at level 14, depending upon you skills/items, Lev 14 gives Starfall Lev 3 for radius 2). The underwater cave and shadow crypt are also optional. Probably 36 is a bit cautionary, but having the extra category point makes this a logical transition point.

Endgame: Consider that you won't have as good of equipment (though the Prides will help, especially with vaults) and no armor training (which eliminates many items), no stat building from Arena/Sandworm/Alchemists, and you won't have Relentless Pursuit. I tried to emulate the endgame difficulty by playing an Anorithil and not getting/using many things, and (no surprise) the wizards were quite difficult (no Aeryn of course). But nothing else was really that hard, though the Grushnak entry points were tricky as usual. I was fortunate to get the Frozen Shroud, which made many fights trivial (in combo with Circles). Another huge edge was a hat with Orc telepathy.

For Prodigies, I chose Endless Woes and then Spine of the World. Maybe Cauterize is another option. For safety, probably go beat some more Orc patrols before High Peak, ensuring level 50.

Disclaimer: I don't know how hard Orc patrols are in middle levels. In my best try, I gave up about level 18. Though in my simulation run above, handling them with a level 30 Anorithil did not appear too difficult.

I would use Shielding/Teleportation runes, and Wild/Movement/Heroism infusions (I had +18 for 10 turns scaling with Magic and die at -763, though I didn't exploit it that much). Given that teleporting in the Orc ambushes is useless(?), either take a Phase Door earlier or have this be the level 36 category point (you can also have a psychoportation torque, or amulet/boots to teleport, but be careful with charm management). The extra Circles category should be much superior to any other choice.

On the other hand, both the Paladin wins seem to quickly beat the Prides (getting Orcrist at level 30 and 32), so maybe that is easier, with Portal Master at level 45 or 47. So maybe I don't know what I am talking about (or perhaps I am thinking too roguelike in safety).

Achievement:BugFound wrote:Given that teleporting in the Orc ambushes is useless

How come? I Is the area supposed to be less than TP minimum range? I swear, in every single Patrol Encounter with a recent Ghoul TP put me on the far side of the map, where the exit is, every single time without fail, leading me to belive the area is exactly 15 squares wide. Am I missing something?

Maybe you are right, I never thought to test edge-to-edge teleport. In fact, the last time I died (at level 18), I was put in the centre at the start and failed to recognise that a named enemy would be so strong (I had survived Fearscape from a named enemy a few encounters before, and was sloppy), in conjunction with the multiple directionality of attacks.

My usual Anorithil ambush strategy (for levels 15 or so) is to sit with shields as long as possible, with Moonlight Ray and Starfall doing damage. Blinding is also useful (Sun Flare). Teleport would work well if everyone comes toward you, and you are relatively close to the exit afterwards. If I had to choose w/o testing it, I think I still might take Phase Door. Another issue is that adverse status effects need to clear before you can exit, which requires extra caution. I don't recall the number of times I actually left w/o defeating all the enemies, but I don't think it was too high. Of course, the major prerequisite is actually having a movement infusion or teleportation rune, which itself is luck from the store.

Now that I think about the "optional" quests, I think they should be done if possible, as the loot could be useful. Note that the two winners in fact killed all four of the orb guardians in the Slime Tunnels, which I would consider excessive and dangerous with an Anorithil.

And after looking at it again, maybe two movement infusions are better than one movement and a teleportation rune (the latter being possible from equipment anyway), particularly in closing all four portals quickly. Personally I'd rather have teleportation in the Prides, but everywhere else I'd prefer the 2nd movement infusion (as long as a summoner doesn't box me in). After some experimenting (and learning more about Anorithil properties), I think the wizard finale should be generally winnable, though of course there can always be bad luck with portal spawns.