ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

What I want to say is this.

One chance enter, overleveled and invisible enemy, very strong nuke and dot damage, Dark Portal you in.

Should be triggered at lv30 not 24

ghklfghklf wrote:What I want to say is this.

One chance enter, overleveled and invisible enemy, very strong nuke and dot damage, Dark Portal you in.

Should be triggered at lv30 not 24

Doesn't matter, because at level 30, the enemies would be even deadlier, because of scaling.

PowerWyrm wrote:

ghklfghklf wrote:What I want to say is this.

One chance enter, overleveled and invisible enemy, very strong nuke and dot damage, Dark Portal you in.

Should be triggered at lv30 not 24

Doesn't matter, because at level 30, the enemies would be even deadlier, because of scaling.

not really at level 30, we get the first Prodigy and this will help a lot...

Ye, usually if I manage to postpone it until 28 I have better chances of survival.

PowerWyrm wrote:Doesn't matter, because at level 30, the enemies would be even deadlier, because of scaling.

I really hope this isn't true. Monsters that automatically scale with your level are lame. It makes experience a punishment, in a sense, which it should never be -- it's supposed to be a reward. If this is really true, you might as well fight Athamaton and the final levels at character level 1.

Not that it seems to be that way, from playing the game so far.

Enemies do scale between a minimum and maximum level set for each zone, but even leveling between those boundaries typically make the game easier. A Lvl 30 snake is much weaker than a Lvl 30 orc assassin, and your character's strength and options scale better than non-rare enemies thanks to your talents, focused build and eventually Prodigies. The main advantage of leveling up is talents rather than raw stats.

Regarding the dark crypt, it should certainly trigger at a higher level and/or give a better reward (the unknown tunnels are much easier and give an incomparably superior reward). I usually don't take that quest if it triggers before the post-Dreadfell part of the game, it's just not worth the risk.

I like having a quest that I actually have to think about taking.

Usually Dark Crypt is a matter of what you think your character is at the point the quest pop up :
-> have your character died several time already in easier dungeons ?
high chances are that he'll die in the dark crypt

-> is your character taking lots of damage too often since the beginning ?
high chances are that he'll die in the dark crypt

-> your character can't kill anything fast ?
chances are that he'll die in dark crypt and/or will completely fail to have the good ending of it

Additionally, some classes are stronger than other, so if you play with a class that is overall weak , chances are that your character will get killed in dark crypt.

Now the problem in NOT doing Dark Crypt is that usually you get a level from completing all of it.
And 1 level in ToME4 means more skills or improved ones, more stats, etc... meaning that just 1 level can improve your character survivability for what's next.
So not doing Dark Crypt can make what's next a bit more difficult, but in the same time if you have a character that has high chances to die in Dark Crypt, doing it can put him closer to the game over.

Grey wrote:I like having a quest that I actually have to think about taking.

An early trigger of the Assassin Lord quest on Nightmare and higher fits that description, but I think the reward needs to be much better for it to be the case with the Dark Crypt. Entering a ridiculously dangerous quest at a moment you don't get to choose for a meager one randomly chosen artifact isn't really something I need to think about long. Every character build gets a huge benefit from saving the merchant, yet saving Melinda typically doesn't give anything useful despite being much riskier. A quest-specific gem/trinket that gives a worthwhile bonus when carried would be much more appropriate and make it a more difficult choice, in my opinion.

Even it provided a very good reward, still, the dark crypt would not be the way it should be.

In roguelike mode, your charactor's life is the most important.

The most dangerous part is the first level, if u get bad luck, when entering, u get surrounded by 5+ mages, and no stair to leave.

Unlike the Assassin Lord quest, you cannot avoid triggering this quest.

If you don't go north, then the Assassin Lord quest hardly triggers.

Players can actually choose when to trigger Assassin Lord quest, but for Dark crypt, no way.

It teaches you about the udefulness of escape options.
You will need that later on.

Grey wrote:I like having a quest that I actually have to think about taking.

+1. On adventurer mode, it's usually worth it if you're well-equipped for your level and have lives to spare: artifacts are artifacts and experience is experience. On roguelike, it might be. I think the reward is just right--if it were any better, it would make the choice way less interesting.

(Still, I tend to wait to enter Dreadfell until I'm just about to hit level 24 for exactly the reasons people have been giving.)

Plak wrote:saving Melinda typically doesn't give anything useful despite being much riskier.

As many kisses as you want from a hot redhead is reward enough for me.

A better reward would be appropriate for this - especially for the "good" ending, e.g. a prodigy comparable to that for the "bad" ending. Risk vs. reward is badly skewed for this encounter - I genuinely like the difficulty, but it would be very nice if you got something substantial for doing it.

I simply enjoy the challenge for it. And it doesn't entirely make sense to reward a powerful character with more power.

If there were a serious reward then people would start viewing the quest as mandatory, start whining that you can't win the game without it, etc. The less valuable the reward the more likely people are to avoid it when appropriate.