ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

is it a good idea to spend category point to get lvl 6 (max) Lichform on 24 lvl instead of 25 lvl? I know that category point could be used somewhere with better benefit, but spare class talent point and earlier Lichform might be good choice too imo. Your thoughts?

no a cat point is worth far more than 1 class point and 3 life.

If you want to end up boosting Necrosis mastery anyway, it might be worth it to do so earlier. But, of course, I have no idea why you'd want to boost your Necrosis mastery, since you don't get much from that category point.

Wat..what kind of question is this? It seems we have a squeemish one here...

Child, the secrets of the dead are not for the faint of heart. If you are not prepared to dedicate yourself to the pursuit of "forbidden" knowledge, if you are not prepared to make the necessary, erm, sacrifices, turn back now.

Why would you want to return as a weaker Lich than possible? Our whole pursuit is to have the utmost mastery over Death, you know this. Surely you have already Blurred Mortality, when even death is not sure if it should take you? Do not stop there fledgling. Continue.

And if you can not, or will not continue...well...pay me a visit. I'm sure I can find a way to remove your fear of undeath. Being a mindless thrall is not so bad, in fact, you would never be afraid of anything again! Keh, heh heh, heh.....

(In other words...why not? Its not like Necromancers have very much its worth putting a cat point in anyways. Really either Ice for minionless, Advanced Minions for minion necro, or the shades one for utility and forgery of haze. I don't think I've ever taken lichform without it being at level 6 because whats the point in being a gimped lich? Its not just 3 life, its 3 life rating per level and now that you cannot heal through conventional means, you need as much life as possible. Which is also why Higher make great liches, you are already pumping Wilpower it just makes gift of the highborn that much better.)

nice post but u didnt get what he was trying to do imo.

the cat has already 1.3 mastery, so its no problem getting lvl 6 lich without catpoint.

so boosting the cat will make lvl 6 available 1 lvl earlier (lvl24) which is only 3 life and 1 class point.

Hm coulda sworn lichform level 6 used to require a catpoint even with 5/5 in it. Maybe that changed, I haven't actually gotten Lichform since the very first beta Necromancer was added in.

Disregard!

Brings up an old debate though. The whole point of lichform is sacrifice for power.

What's a better sacrifice then a cat point? If we use one of those, and 5 the talent, we come to 1.5 mastery, for a 7.5 effective talent level.

Yet there is no level 7 benefit. Why not? Surely a greater sacrifice should lead to greater power, no?

Crim, The Red Thunder wrote:Yet there is no level 7 benefit. Why not? Surely a greater sacrifice should lead to greater power, no?

Level 7: The necrotic energies released by your death tear a hole in the fabric of reality, sending your corpse hurtling through the Void to land at the feet of Gerlyk. The lost god experiences but a moment of confusion before your transformation begins, his soul pouring into you like the ocean through a burst dam and adding his power to your own.

All across Eyal, the signs are clear. In the East, High Peak erupts, covering the continent in a fulsome cloud of ash and smoke that leaves no trace of the bloody conflict. In Elvala, the elves find that their wild gifts have been corrupted with the essence of death, causing their beloved trees and animals to rise up and slaughter them en masse. In Zigur, things are even worse: Infected with necrotic essence, the mage-hunters' souls are torn to shreds as their own antimagic powers turn against them, their bodies rising from the ground as terrible revenants bound to your will. In Angolwen, the mages run to Linaniil for help, only to find her dead, impaled on her staff, with the warning "It Begins" written in her blood across the wall.

And, in a forgotten corner of the Charred Scar, the world splits open. Through the resulting hole, you step through, your withered flesh stretched taught across your skull in a permanent and terrible rictus, your empty eye sockets burning with power and hatred. At long last, Death has come to Eyal.

Sradac wrote: (In other words...why not? Its not like Necromancers have very much its worth putting a cat point in anyways. Really either Ice for minionless, Advanced Minions for minion necro, or the shades one for utility and forgery of haze. I don't think I've ever taken lichform without it being at level 6 because whats the point in being a gimped lich? Its not just 3 life, its 3 life rating per level and now that you cannot heal through conventional means, you need as much life as possible. Which is also why Higher make great liches, you are already pumping Wilpower it just makes gift of the highborn that much better.)

Shades is a must because Forgery of Haze is really strong and your other category point should go to Celestial/Light from an Anorithil escort since Lich Necromancers are very bad healing and dealing with detrimental effects. The benefit from the Light tree is way more than gaining 3 max hp by becoming a Lich at level 23 rather than level 24 and the marginal boost other Necrosis talents get from the 0.2 mastery increase. Considering you can get Lichform to effective level 6 anyway, the Necrosis tree is absolutely not worth a category point.

Mewtarthio wrote:

Crim, The Red Thunder wrote:Yet there is no level 7 benefit. Why not? Surely a greater sacrifice should lead to greater power, no?

Level 7: The necrotic energies released by your death tear a hole in the fabric of reality, sending your corpse hurtling through the Void to land at the feet of Gerlyk. The lost god experiences but a moment of confusion before your transformation begins, his soul pouring into you like the ocean through a burst dam and adding his power to your own.

All across Eyal, the signs are clear. In the East, High Peak erupts, covering the continent in a fulsome cloud of ash and smoke that leaves no trace of the bloody conflict. In Elvala, the elves find that their wild gifts have been corrupted with the essence of death, causing their beloved trees and animals to rise up and slaughter them en masse. In Zigur, things are even worse: Infected with necrotic essence, the mage-hunters' souls are torn to shreds as their own antimagic powers turn against them, their bodies rising from the ground as terrible revenants bound to your will. In Angolwen, the mages run to Linaniil for help, only to find her dead, impaled on her staff, with the warning "It Begins" written in her blood across the wall.

And, in a forgotten corner of the Charred Scar, the world splits open. Through the resulting hole, you step through, your withered flesh stretched taught across your skull in a permanent and terrible rictus, your empty eye sockets burning with power and hatred. At long last, Death has come to Eyal.

Maybe not that... epic... but there should be something.

But I want this epic end to everything.

And it opens up...

A NEW CAMPAIGN!!!!!!! WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

DG already had plans for some kind of "world of undead" campaing setting where pretty much everything is dead / undead and its a very very miserable place to be.

I think Mew has insider information....

I would be totally down for that, though as Revanchist said, maybe not *THAT* epic for level 7. Let's save that for a level 8 talent, Kay?

Sradac wrote: DG already had plans for some kind of "world of undead" campaing setting where pretty much everything is dead / undead and its a very very miserable place to be.

Miserable? Bah! Sounds like a great place! As long as they're the sentient skellies, of course. Nome of those degenerate campaign-fodder sort.

Crim, The Red Thunder wrote:I would be totally down for that, though as Revanchist said, maybe not *THAT* epic for level 7. Let's save that for a level 8 talent, Kay?

If you absolutely, positively cannot restrain yourselves, at least make it really hard to get. None of this level 7 or eight. A Necromancer who invests will get a level 7.5, and any artifact that raises the Mastery will put it past 8. I'm thinking... Infinite 500 sort of high. Think of it as "beating" the Infinite Dungeon, how about?
That seems fair. To appease those power-hungry Necros. Who wants to make the addon?

The Revanchist wrote:

Sradac wrote: DG already had plans for some kind of "world of undead" campaing setting where pretty much everything is dead / undead and its a very very miserable place to be.

Miserable? Bah! Sounds like a great place! As long as they're the sentient skellies, of course. Nome of those degenerate campaign-fodder sort.

Crim, The Red Thunder wrote:I would be totally down for that, though as Revanchist said, maybe not *THAT* epic for level 7. Let's save that for a level 8 talent, Kay?

If you absolutely, positively cannot restrain yourselves, at least make it really hard to get. None of this level 7 or eight. A Necromancer who invests will get a level 7.5, and any artifact that raises the Mastery will put it past 8. I'm thinking... Infinite 500 sort of high. Think of it as "beating" the Infinite Dungeon, how about?
That seems fair. To appease those power-hungry Necros. Who wants to make the addon?

Well, how about:
At level 7: +7 magic/willpower/cunning, 15% to all resistance caps, 15 to all saves, Celestial/Star Fury category @ 1.3, 1.5 negative energy regeneration. +4 life rating and 0.5% resist all per level (not retroactive). <some epic text>

Not very OP for sacrifices it requires imo.