ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Heyo all. Dunno how many other folks here play paper and pencil RPGs as well as electronic ones, but I do a whole mess of RPing myself and most of what I do is GMing. Being one of those types who likes to come up with custom stuff instead of just using things from the book, I look all sorts of places for inspiration for my latest creations, from races and classes to magic items to monsters. Obviously, this includes ToME from time to time and the more I play it the more I want to make various d20 things based on stuff from ToME. I was talking to Torokasi about these, and he suggested I post them on the forum for people's amusement.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, while many status effects in ToME and DnD share names(Stun, Daze, etc), they have very different effects. Since this is DnD stats, all statuses are using the DnD definition. Figured I'd just clarify that for anyone looking at this who isn't familiar with DnD 3.5 stuff but was curious anyway!

So without further ado, my most recent ToME inspired DnD creation but the first one I'm posting here, everyone's favorite random boss: BURB

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Name: Burb, Frost Johtun Champion (Large Giant(Cold) 22)
HP: 22d8+198+22 (315hp)
Init/Speed: +6/50ft
AC: 30/FF28/T11 (10+2 dex +13 NA +6 Armor -1 Size)
Space/Reach: 10ft/10ft
Attacks: 2 Slams +28/+28 (19-20/x2), Thrown Rock +17
Damage: Slam 3d6+12 +2d6 cold +2d6 elec, Rock 2d6+12
F/R/W: +28/+16/+18
Stats: Str-34(+12), Dex-14(+2), Con-28(+9), Int-16(+3), Wis-18(+4), Cha-24(+7)
Skills: Intimidate+32 (others, but none relevant to combat)
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Weapon Focus(Slam), Improved Toughness, Improved Natural Attack(Slam), Improved Initiative, Improved Critical(Slam), Armor Skin
SA: Rush, Mighty Blow, You Shall Be My Weapon, Frozen Storm, Freeze, Rock Throwing
SQ: Powerful Build, Rock Catching, Immune to Cold, Vulnerable to Fire, Low Light Vision, Fire Resistance 20, Champion's Grace
Gear: Burb's Armor(+3 Commanders Hide Armor)

Rock Throwing - As the normal Frost Giant ability.
Rush - An opponent struck by Burb's charge attack must make a Fortitude Save DC 33 or be stunned for 1 round.
Mighty Blow - On a critical hit with a slam attack, Burb launches his target 30ft through the air, knocking them prone in the square they land in.
You Shall Be My Weapon - As a standard action, Burb may make a grapple attack against a single enemy of Large size or smaller. If the grapple is successful, Burb immediately slams his enemy into another foe within reach, dealing 10d6+18 damage to both the "improvised weapon" and the attacked enemy. Also, both targets must make Fortitude saves DC 33 or be dazed for 1 round. After using this ability, Burb must wait 5 rounds before he can use it again.
Freeze - As a standard action, Burb may hurl an unerring blast of ice so cold that it will freeze its target solid at a single for within 100ft. The target takes 22d6 Cold damage, and is encased in ice and unable to move or act for 1d6 rounds. A Fortitude save DC 29 halves this damage and negates the iceblock. After using this ability, Burb must wait 5 rounds before he can use it again.
Frozen Storm - A permanent storm of ice and lightning surrounds Burb. A snowstorm(strong winds, turns terrain into heavy snow) blows within 100ft of him, and 1/round as a swift action he may call down a bolt of lightning on a single target, dealing 3d10 electricity damage, Reflex Save DC 20 for half.
Powerful Build - As the Goliath ability from Races of Stone. Burb counts as 1 size larger for the purposes of opposed rolls when it is advantageous to him.
Champion's Grace - Burb adds his Charisma bonus as a bonus to all saving throws.

Tactics: So Burb is a heavy duty melee threat, but not one that his opponents can afford to delay engaging, as he will be more then happy to hang back until Freeze comes off cooldown to use it as often as his opponents will allow. Once engaged in melee, Burb lays about with You Shall Be My Weapon immediately to try and take two of the bigger damage dealers out for a round or so, and if the melee combatants make the mistake of leaving him a clear path to charge a spellcaster he will cheerfully take it. And of course while a DC 20 save is not much at the levels this guy is sane to fight, that 3d10 lightning strike for free every round is nothing to sneeze at, any character trying to retreat to heal will likely be the target of that(though Burb is not dumb, if someone has the Evasion ability and dodges all damage from his bolt, he won't waste the damage fireing at them again).

It is very rare that Burb would be encountered without backup of several normal Frost Giants and possibly a few Frost Giants with levels in spellcasting classes, his Commander's armor serving to give his allies a small boost to their normally poor Will save.

Design Notes: So to make things fit d20 mechanics, I can't be entirely faithful to the ToME build. In Burb's case I give him a couple of abilities that he does not have(though still based on other ToME abilities) to make things more interesting, but I tried to make sure he kept his iconic powers. Namely high end Freeze, a solid melee attack, and coming with a pack of goons to back him up. And on the reverse, some of his abilities aren't quite what you'd expect from DnD mechanics, of note his Slam damage is much higher then it should be and he has several abilities with no clear source for them(the Fire resistance, the extra damage on his attacks, etc). I'm chalking all of that up to making the mechanics fit the thematics rather then feeling bound to Rules As Written in design. Burb is supposed to be a heavy hitter, so I boost his melee damage beyond what Powerful Build and Improved Natural Attack should normally do. Burb is supposed to have command over ice and lightning, so I give him unique abilities interacting with those elements instead of trying to find existing DnD classes that do kind of what I want but come with extra baggage as well.

In the game I'll be using him in, Burb is the champion of the Frost Giant god, Thrrym. When the PCs attack one of Thrrym's greatest mortal worshippers(a Frost Giant Jarl with levels in the Blessed of Thrrym class from the Frostburn supplement), Burb will arrive seemingly out of nowhere to defend his people, sent by Thrrym himself to even the playing field as the PCs have divine backing of their own. Now I know that in ToME there are no gods or divinities, but as such things are a major part of most DnD games(including this one), I figured that would be a great role for him to fill.

Hope this entertains those of you who play DnD, and if any of you GM feel free to use this as well as anything else I post here~

I like this. I might include him in Veins sometime in the future, so that there's powerful stuff for epic levels.

Very interesting, my D&D (more AD&D in my case) years are very far back in my long lost youth, but it's very good to read.

I have noticed that the Adom developer created some kind of RPG rulebook based on his roguelike, i wonder if someone will one day create such thing based on the ToME4 system.

Glad to see folks like it. Here's another ToME D&D thing I made, this time a prestige class. I present to you...


The Bulwark
Hit Dice: d12
Skill Points: 2+Int mod
Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Craft, Intimidate, Jump, Profession, Swim

Prerequisites
Base Attack Bonus +6
Feats: Improved Shield Bash, Weapon Focus(any Shield), Combat Expertise
Special: Must be proficient with Heavy Armor and Heavy Shields

Level	BAB	F/R/W	Special
1	+1	+2/+0/+0	Shield Wall+1, Tower Shield Proficiency
2	+2	+3/+0/+0	Bonus Feat, Tower Shield Bash
3	+3	+3/+1/+1	Shield Wall+2
4	+4	+4/+1/+1	Victory Step
5	+5	+4/+1/+1	Shield Wall+3, Bonus Feat
6	+6	+5/+2/+2	Overpower
7	+7	+5/+2/+2	Shield Wall+4
8	+8	+6/+2/+2	Shield Stun
9	+9	+6/+3/+3	Shield Wall+5
10	+10	+7/+3/+3	Assault

Class Features:

Shield Wall: At 1st level, a Bulwark learns to defend themselves more efficiently with a shield, though at the expense of some mobility and offensive ability. So long as she has a shield readied, a Bulwark can enter Shield Wall stance as a move action, and maintain it indefinitely(so long as she keeps her shield up and readied). While in Shield Wall stance, her shield bonus to AC granted by her shield improves by +1, and she gains a +1 non-typed bonus on saves against spells and spell-like abilities. This bonus increases at 3rd, 5th, 7th and 9th levels. However, while maintaining Shield Wall stance, the Bulwark has her move speed reduced by 10ft, and takes a -2 penalty on all attack and damage rolls.

Tower Shield Proficiency: Gain this as a bonus feat at 1st level.

Tower Shield Bash: At 2nd level, a Bulwark may attempt a shield bash with a tower shield. Tower shields do 1d8 damage when used for a shield bash. However, the normal attack roll penalties for using one still apply.

Bonus Feat: At 2nd and 5th levels, the Bulwark may select a bonus feat from the following list, and must meet all prerequisites to take the feat as normal. Shield Specialization, Active Shield Defense, Agile Shield Fighter, Shield Sling, Shield Ward, Shield Charge, Shield Slam, Weapon Specialization(Shields), Greater Weapon Focus(Shields), and Greater Weapon Specialization(Shields). A Bulwark may add her Bulwark class levels to her Fighter class levels for the purposes of qualifying for these specific bonus feats.
Note: many of the feats are from the Player's Handbook 2.

Victory Step: At 4th level, a Bulwark learns to make up for their lack of speed by taking short steps whenever the opportunity allows. Whenever the Bulwark reduces an opponent below 0 hit points, she may take an immediate 5ft step that does not count against her movement for the round, nor does it count as taking her 5ft step for the round. However, if the Bulwark has the Cleave feat, she may not make a cleave attack and a Victory Step at the same time.
Special: The 5ft step allowed by Victory Step may be taken even in terrain conditions(such as being in Difficult Terrain) that normally would not allow a 5ft step. The Bulwark must be able to move, though. No taking a Victory Step while outright immobilized.

Overpower: At 6th level, a Bulwark learns a neat trick for thinning out mobs of enemies and breaking apart the formation of those who attack her. As a standard action, she may enter the Overpower stance until the beginning of her next turn(this does not conflict with Shield Wall), and may counter any melee attack with a powerful shove of her shield. After resolving the provoking attack, whether it hits or misses, the Bulwark makes an attack roll to touch the enemy with her shield. If this attack connects, it deals no damage, but the Bulwark makes a Strength check(+2 if using a Tower Shield, -2 if using a Light Shield or Buckler), opposed by the opponent's Strength or Dexterity check(their choice). If the Bulwark wins the check, the opponent is pushed back 5ft(+5ft for every 5 points the Bulwark's check beat the opponent's check), and knocked prone in their new square. This knockback does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Special: If the Bulwark has the Improved Bull Rush or Improved Trip feats, she may add a +2 bonus to her Overpower check for each feat. If the opponent is exceptionally stable and has bonuses to resist either bull rush or trip attacks, she may apply those bonuses to resist being Overpowered. And size bonuses apply as normal on both sides.

Shield Stun: At 8th level, a Bulwark can lash out with a single very powerful shield strike to knock an opponent silly, taking them out of the fight for at least a moment. As a standard action, she may make a single attack with her shield, which deals damage as normal, and if it connects the opponent must make a Fortitude save(DC 10+Bulwark Class level+Str mod. +2 if using a Tower Shield, -2 if using a Light Shield or Buckler) or be stunned for 1 round. While there is no limit to the number of times per day a Bulwark may use Shield Stun, after making a Shield Stun attack she must wait 3 rounds before making another(so if she uses it on the first round, she can use it again on the fourth).
Special: A Bulwark may use Victory Step after a successful stun with Shield Stun, even if the attack does not reduce the opponent below 0 hp.

Assault: At 10th level, the Bulwark finally learns a trick to make up for their biggest weakness of having poor damage ability. Once per day, as a full round action, the Bulwark may use Assault, making a single attack with her shield, at her highest attack bonus. If this attack hits, she immediately makes two follow up attacks with her weapon, both at her highest attack bonus, and these hits if they connect are automatic critical threats(which must be confirmed as normal).

Hmm. That giant empty space isn't supposed to be there, but I can't figure out how to remove it without getting rid of my table entirely. Sadness.

Robsoie: Man, I would love to see a full on ToME RPG rulebook. I've considered trying to make one, but I'm really not sure I have the chops for it, nor the dedication to actually get it done. -_-;

Honestly, the Bulwark PrC is supremely awful.

Shield Wall suffers the same problem as the Dwarven Defender's main ability's problem. Tower shield bash suffers from the fact that tower shields still grant the native -2 to attack rolls, you'd be better off shield bashing with a heavy shield. Victory Step doesn't need the cleave restriction at all, besides ridiculous edge cases where you line up peasants in the world's hugest conga line for a murder boost. Overpower is completely unusable thanks to the standard action required to use it. Shield Stun's pretty alright, practically a once per encounter timing but oh well. Coming in at 14th level is a bit killer, though. And why isn't Assault once per encounter/de facto once per encounter like Shield Stun?

This could honestly use a whole ton of revision to make it into something less of a trap option.

A ToME Tabletop rulebook I always fancied .. hum .. who wants to help me with it ?

I'm somewhat familiar with D&D 3.x (and Pathfinder) though not really a veteran player.

Think this could be an interesting project, although some might argue D&D 4 is a better fit, considering how powers there have cooldowns.

Anyway, might be also interesting to have racial conversions, including racial talents. I'm thinking the base racial power would be something all members of the race get, while the tier 2/3/4 should be available at feats at level 4/8/12 or something like that (considering ToME has them at 8/16/24).
Oh, and epic feats to represent prodigies.
I definetely suggest trying to get the concept right rather than being 100% faithful to the ToME rules (which is impossible anyway). Maybe later I can post some drafts of a race or two, perhaps Shalore or Thalore. I wonder if ToME magic would be closer to wizardry(so Intelligence)or sorcery(Charisma) in D&D terms...

Darkgod wrote:A ToME Tabletop rulebook I always fancied .. hum .. who wants to help me with it ?

Could be very nice, but are you still talking D&D/d20, another system, or brand new rules?

(VERY rough draft, note these are regular 3.x elves for comparison http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm#elves

Italics are for comments on how this compares to regular D&D material. Again, I'm not an expert but I've played it a bit and thought I might as well try.

SHALOREN

+2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence or Charisma, -2 Constitution. Shaloren are graceful and tend to be adept at magic, whetever by intellectual effort or pure force of personality, but they have frail bodies.

Medium: As Medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Elf base land speed is 30 feet.

Low-Light Vision: An elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and
similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under
these conditions.

+2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. An elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it.

Grace of the Eternals: Once per day a free action, a Shalore may immediately move by 10+(highest of Dexterity and Charisma modifier)x5 feet without triggering any attacks of opportunity. Additionally, they gain a +1 racial bonus to attack, defense and Reflex saves until their next turn. This is a spell-like ability but does not provoke attacks of opportunity if activated while threatened.

Ageless: Unlike other elves, Shaloren are not merely long-lived, but truly unaging after reaching maturity. Shaloren will never die or have their ability scores modified by growing older and are completely immune to even the most powerful aging magics.

Favored Class: Wizard or Sorcerer, according to whetever the Shalore has a racial bonus to Intelligence or Charisma respectively. A multiclass Shalore favored class does not count when determining whether she takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing.

Compared to a regular D&D elf, loses sleep immunity and weapon proficiences but keeps the perception bonuses because I assume Maj'Eyal elves are still a bit more perceptive than humans.
Thought the 'Charisma or Intelligence' was a decent workaround to the issue of the lack of a magic stat, but Grace uses 'Dexterity or Charisma' because it fits more with innate magic.
I had considered something like a '+2 to Charisma or Intelligence for purposes of arcane magic only', though it would add more book-keeping.
Yes, +2 to two stats with a single -2 might be a bit odd for an ECL 0 race, but I'd rather have
them too strong than too weak. ECL +1 is excessive, and an experience penalty like in ToME is well, not very nice in a tabletop RPG, even if there's precedents for it.
Really not sure about the Grace of the Eternal power - actual bonus actions at level 1 would be very out of place, I fear, that's why I thought extra movement plus minor bonuses would fit.
Also, Ageless is a bit of a late addition, but it's mostly meant to be flavour, though in practice it might be a penalty, since it disables getting bonuses to casting ability scores from starting old. Being completely immune to aging magic might not mean much overall, although it sounds very absolute - but it does make for simpler playing!


Shaloren Racial Feats
Note that these are all spell-like abilities which do not cause attacks of opportunity.
Perhaps also make them count as magic feats for purposes of bonus feats from being a Wizard or
Sorcerer? Might be appropriate. And keep in mind this is a first draft, it might make sense to
change the 'once per day' to more based on character level or even 'once per encounter', even though that's more of a D&D 4.0 mechanic


Magic of the Eternals
Prerequisite: Shalore, level 4+
Benefit: Once per day as an immediate action, you can retroactively increase the threat range of one of your attacks by 1. This bonus applies after all other modifiers.

with the different scale D&D rolls use, always on +threat range would definetely be too strong. As would +1 crit damage multiplier. Decided to allow multiple uses per day and make it an immediate action which is pretty-passivey, so it can even be used on attacks of opportunity.

Secrets of the Eternals
Prerequisite: Shalore, Magic of the Eternals, level 8+
Benefit: Once per day as an immediate action upon taking damage at least 10% of your maximum Hit Points(rounded up) you may become invisible until the end of your next turn. For effects other than duration, this works like the Invisibility spell, including vanishing if you attack.

Not much to say on this, I guess. Perhaps it could be an exception to 'vanish if you attack' rule? Not sure.

Timeless
Prerequisite: Shalore, Secrets of the Eternals, level 12+
Benefit: Once per day as a swift action, you can reduce the duration of negative effects on you by 1 turn (as long as the effect allowed a save in the first place) and extend the duration of positive effects by 1 turn.

Likely horribly unbalanced, but well, it IS very powerful in ToME. To make it a bit weaker, perhaps give give the choice of decreasing negative OR extending positive effects? Only allow this to be used on X total effects?

Feedback is one of the reasons I post things like this.

If you have suggestions for making Bulwark better, without breaking with ToME style or making it too good, I'll happily hear them. The class hasn't been playtested yet, afterall, it's just something I whipped up out of boredom one day.

Zonk: Shaloran looks fine, the +2 to two stats, -2 to one stat is in line with Pathfinder races if not 3.5 races, and PF is probably the better game to launch from if we want a ToME d20 anyway. And I think letting Shaloran wizards take racial feats as their Wizard Bonus Feats is fine.

Grace of the Eternals: This is powerful, I'd add a codicil that they can't use this while immobile/entangled in any way so that nobody tries using it as a free grapple escape for one. Reminds me of a more limited Travel Devotion(feat from Complete Champion) which I've seen abused way too often. But only 1/day, there's only so much abuse that can happen with it, so it's probably fine.

Magic of the Eternals: This is neat, though you said you wanted to allow multiple uses per day...and left the text as 1/day. Perhaps once per day, plus once more for every 4 levels beyond 4th? So you get 2 at 8th, 3 at 12th, so on?

Secrets of the Eternals: Reactive invisibility is a nice trick, probably same uses per day as suggested for Magic would make it good.

Timeless: Actually this is fine. Still couldn't use it to get rid of things like Stun(can't take actions while stunned in DnD) or even Daze(same problem), but could use it to reduce the duration of harmful spells and such. Just keep in mind, at 12th level, most negative spells cast on you will have a duration of 12 rounds minimum.

Gatewalker wrote:Feedback is one of the reasons I post things like this.

If you have suggestions for making Bulwark better, without breaking with ToME style or making it too good, I'll happily hear them. The class hasn't been playtested yet, afterall, it's just something I whipped up out of boredom one day.

I don't have any specific thoughts, but as someone brought up the tower shield penalty...what if that was reduced to -1 or even removed at higher levels? Minor really.

Zonk: Shaloran looks fine, the +2 to two stats, -2 to one stat is in line with Pathfinder races if not 3.5 races, and PF is probably the better game to launch from if we want a ToME d20 anyway. And I think letting Shaloran wizards take racial feats as their Wizard Bonus Feats is fine.

Yeah, I agree, I like Pathfinder more. I think counting Shalore take racial feats as a bonus isn't really unbalanced, considering that the feats being magical is sometimes a disadvantage.
Also Pathfinder has feats at every even level(IIRC) which is also good.

Grace of the Eternals: This is powerful, I'd add a codicil that they can't use this while immobile/entangled in any way so that nobody tries using it as a free grapple escape for one. Reminds me of a more limited Travel Devotion(feat from Complete Champion) which I've seen abused way too often. But only 1/day, there's only so much abuse that can happen with it, so it's probably fine.

Ops, forgot that, best not to leave stuff as 'intended', yeah. Yeah, it's definetely not meant to allow one to move out of situations where you are paralyzed or blocked.

Magic of the Eternals: This is neat, though you said you wanted to allow multiple uses per day...and left the text as 1/day. Perhaps once per day, plus once more for every 4 levels beyond 4th? So you get 2 at 8th, 3 at 12th, so on?

That was EXACTLY how I wanted it to work yes, one more every 4 levels.

Secrets of the Eternals: Reactive invisibility is a nice trick, probably same uses per day as suggested for Magic would make it good.

Timeless: Actually this is fine. Still couldn't use it to get rid of things like Stun(can't take actions while stunned in DnD) or even Daze(same problem), but could use it to reduce the duration of harmful spells and such. Just keep in mind, at 12th level, most negative spells cast on you will have a duration of 12 rounds minimum.

Good - keep in mind I'm not too familiar with high level play, actually.


On the uses per day issue, actually: one thought I had was to generalize this for all/most activated racial powers if we are convert all the player races.
Basically, give +1 daily use every 4 levels above the 'base' required to use the power, just like we said above with Magic.
For the starting racial power, this means you get a 2nd use at level 5, a 3rd at 9 and so on.
Of course, power that is applied too should be balanced 'conservatively', to make up for the multiple uses.

Also, perhaps the minimum levels for the racial feats should be odd instead of even, that might be important. So 5/10/15 instead of 4/8/12. Not sure, really. I think keeping it as even has the advantage that you get feats at even levels in PF so...


When I have some time, I will perhaps rewrite Shalore following your suggestions.
For other races, I had started Dwarves but then scrapped them, I found the racials I was doing a bit boring - but then dwarves seem to be mostly about resilience. I might redo a write up someday, though.

If you're wondering, I was going to handle the wealth to saves racial power by giving +Fortitude/Willpower saves based on the character's expendable wealth compared to the 'wealth by level' guidelines. With caveats so you can't have party members lend the wealth for you for a big battle then just give it back. You know how players are

Oh God what I wouldn't give to have a Pathfinder RPG rulebook for ToME.

And to anyone interested, I would be happy to help. For those who are not aware Pathfinder is essentially and updated 3.5 edition [removed as I shouldn't have an opinion]

I have never written anything for a pen and paper before, but would love to try. And play testing wouldn't be hard with Roll20.net. Someone take the lead and tell me what you need.

And I have to say, the fact that DarkGod is interested in the idea makes me smile!

Edit: I know the pathfinder stuff is discussed already, but i'm just pointing it out for any others who stumble across the thread and don't know what PF is. A lot of players from the past, AD&D specifically, don't know there is a newish ruleset out there for the more classic style of play. Used to get lots of older guys come into my local gaming store looking for D&D stuff before they found out about the 4th ed changes. PF is almost always where they ended up.

vaughner wrote:And to anyone interested, I would be happy to help. For those who are not aware Pathfinder is essentially and updated 3.5 edition after WotC destroyed the D&D franchise with 4th Edition. (Just my opinion, no flame wars here)

Pretty weird that you post something that would spark a flame war, but immediately say you don't want one.

Nacht wrote:

vaughner wrote:And to anyone interested, I would be happy to help. For those who are not aware Pathfinder is essentially and updated 3.5 edition after WotC destroyed the D&D franchise with 4th Edition. (Just my opinion, no flame wars here)

Pretty weird that you post something that would spark a flame war, but immediately say you don't want one.

Okay, it's changed. I thought we were a community of older gamers for the most part. (By older I mean our typical demographic of mostly over 30 years old) Those of us who were able to play AD&D back in the day. I don't understand why people can't be tolerant of other peoples opinions though. And it wasn't posted to incite rage, just expressing why 'I' prefer PFRPG.

vaughner wrote:

Nacht wrote:

vaughner wrote:And to anyone interested, I would be happy to help. For those who are not aware Pathfinder is essentially and updated 3.5 edition after WotC destroyed the D&D franchise with 4th Edition. (Just my opinion, no flame wars here)

Pretty weird that you post something that would spark a flame war, but immediately say you don't want one.

Okay, it's changed. I thought we were a community of older gamers for the most part. (By older I mean our typical demographic of mostly over 30 years old) Those of us who were able to play AD&D back in the day. I don't understand why people can't be tolerant of other peoples opinions though. And it wasn't posted to incite rage, just expressing why 'I' prefer PFRPG.

Tolerance has zip-all nothing to do with this. It's a completely unnecessary and frankly, immature dig at something you don't personally like. You could have written it in any number of ways without saying 4e "destroyed" D&D, but you consciously did and immediately tried to play it off as nothing at all.