ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Most games are "Nightmare = Normal" "Normal = Easy" and "Easy = theSims version" which are gradually further made easier in later patches as new items/skills/classes/races are made while any player nerf is frowned upon in many communities.
All below played on Nightmare Adventure ToME first play...

L1 Higher Bulwark - final death in Trollmire to Hornet Swarm
L1 Higher Bulwark - final death in Trollmire to Skeleton Archer
L1 Higher Bulwark - final death in Trollmire to Salibrekira the Large White Snake
L2 Higher Bulwark - final death in Trollmire to Elaseritha the King Cobra

Usually I died to some bad unique who gets his friends to join later. No *good* items found to help against them and "Ruuuun Away!" didn't always work. I don't like leaving a zone after reading all items on the ground will vanish if I do. Ok, so I tell myself tone it down from Nightmare to Normal, but I disagree and keep it on Nightmare anyways. Maybe the problem is Highers make awful Bulwarks and the game is smashing my awful concept before I spend too much time? Maybe, but I try again. I get a L3 Higher Bulwark to town to find my 25gold (after selling junk) cannot buy me a better weapon or better anything. I visit all the towns and accept some quests. I see a graveyard (with a quest) which says "range:2" which I falsely assume means difficulty level 2 (it really means distance away) and my L3 character should have no problem. I open a door and 289 darkness damage instant death.

L3 Higher Bulwark - final death in Lost Hope to Celia.

I try again determined to at least make it to Kor'pul (1st quest). I enter Kor'pul with a L2 Higher Bulwark. Doing ok. I open a door and there's a L24 Skeleton Archer behind it... with an item behind him so I'm thinking that is probably an awesome item. I trick him via kiting & grab the greatsword which does 3x my old weapon and more. I get a 2nd item & open another door to find a L20-something hydra (I don't remember exactly) and it kills me, but since it was my 1st death I respawn with my new items. Somehow I dropped my shield... so I'm a L2 Bulwark with a great greatsword and no shield. Still alive, but think I'm going to die soon.

Knowledge is power so I go online & learn the Zones each have recommended levels for each. I watch some "Lets Play Maj'Eyal" Video on YouTube to see if there is something I'm overlooking or if I really need to go down to Normal. The video talks about how dwarves have it soo much harder in the beginning so that is why the guy is playing on Normal. However, the dwarf starts out with a fighting ally. So I start a Dwarf Beserker. It's far easier, not only do I have this decoy/fighting ally, but I'm not running into multiple unique bosses while still a weak Level1. I literally used the decoy to save my life against the final main boss after I made a mistake. I also found far more items to use/sell before reaching town. Now I have a L5 Dwarf Beserker in Iron Council who I feel confident can survive and a L2 Higher Bulwark who I fear will die soon despite his better weapon than my L5 Dwarf.

1.I know a Higher Bulwark isn't the best cookie-cutter race for a Bulwark and luck is in the game, but regardless I found the enemies in Trollmire more difficult than the Dwarf's starting area especially with the ally to help the dwarf and seemingly higher frequency of unique bosses in Trollmire. Am I wrong?

2.If I enter an area and leave because there are 3 enemies and a boss near the entrance does leaving the are zone/area remove all the items on the ground? Did I read that wrong somewhere?

3.I like the freedom to be able to visit areas too dangerous, but is there anyway to tell how dangerous a zone is before going into it other than having this list (http://te4.org/wiki/Zone) run in background?

4.Was there any way for my L2 character to know there was a L24 Skeleton Archer behind that door? I would hate to lose a L40 character, for example, by opening a door to find a L480 Ancient Dracolich behind it.

1) I've never encountered such bad luck.

2) From what I understand, leaving a zone deletes any items on the ground. With one exception. Any items left in a "Vault" (you need to open it directly, and the floor says "cannot teleport to this place) will remain there. (I think)

3) When you enter a zone, it should say anything from "This place is easy", to "You feel a thrill of terror and your heart begins to pound in your chest". Three guesses which one means you're out-of-depth. (There are other messages,which you may have encountered)

4) I don't think so. It's a risk you either take, or don't. You aren't penalized for not entering a vault. AND you can always double back for it...

1) For some reason I actually find dwarves harder, even in the first dungeon with the decoy, though people who say they're harder I believe often refer to the boss and the next mandatory dungeon you won't get a partner for.

2) the items will stay intact, as will the enemies.

3) Trial and error will teach you. Often you can take a peek at the place and still flee after examining the first enemy you see. It will give you a rough estimate of the difficulty. If you don't move from the stairs you should be 100% safe.

4) KorPul is tier 1 dungeon so there are no lv20+ enemies, except in vaults. The door you opened must have been a vault and it should have asked you if you really want to open it. Regular doors won't ask such things and most of the time don't have out of depths enemies behind them.
There are skills that let you peek inside a vault and behind a door without risk of getting killed.

In the end this is all normal for roguelike games. Expect to get killed - a lot, in fights you'd hardly call fair. Experience will teach you further so don't be afraid of dying.

Edit:
the part about not moving from the stairs means not spending a turn on them as well. You will get the first act in dungeons and if it's fleeing from dungeon you can safely do it.

Judging by the text I'd guess this is your first roguelike. If it is then I'd strongly recommend normal mode. I guarantee you it won't be a cakewalk, and if it is you can always go back to higher difficulty later (not on the same character though)

I would contest any claims that Nightmare is the intended difficulty setting; it really isn't. Nightmare is technically an afterthought; insofar as it was added relatively recently.

From what I've seen so far Nightmare is definitely not the intended difficulty, which is pleasantly surprising.

I probably thought any text (entering a zone or opening a door) was just there for flavor/lore/role-play. I'll be more sensitive to the words/text & already changed it so all text lasts longer on the screen so I don't miss anything.

I tried Nethack, but found it ridiculous to have a hero capable of easily killing enemy dwarf lords, but later get scratched to death by "a common housecat" which I couldn't outrun much less kill (if it was a demon it should have said so on my grave or something). No towns and not user-friendly either. I have a L35 Dwarf Paladin and a L16 Mage still alive on Angband. In Angband you won't see a L24 Skeleton on L2, although I did see a L55 Dracolisk on L37. I never saw any vaults in Angband until much later and had a spell/rod/staff of detect which showed the room packed solid with monsters &/or let me see the level of creatures so I knew it was a vault. The 1st *good* vault I found there was completely surrounded by rock & I tunneled into it. In most roguelikes you're opening tons of doors, but here my 1st door for that character was a vault. The first unique enemy in Angband is often either Smeagal (only steals gold usually) or the Farmer in town (who will only talk) or the Farmer's Dog - all which you may never see until much later. In ToME I did have the 1st move in all the areas I entered, but I never even saw Celia - only her darkness damage killing me. At least I know what to expect there now and know the zone difficulty better. Every roguelike is a little different.

That aside, I do expect my Nightmare characters to permanently die someday, which is why I selected Adventure mode and not Roguelike (at least until I know the game better). I have multiple characters so a permanent death isn't as painful as putting all of one's eggs in one basket. I also expect my Angband characters to die too, but I'll do my best to help them too.

I would recommend playing normal until you have at least beaten the game once. Nightmare is not just harder, it's less balanced, some classes may not even be viable, if you check the character vault for example there are zero bulwark winners on Nightmare. Nightmare is especiall unfriendly for a new player because you really need to gain a few levels and get more abilities in order to learn the game.

Higher isn't really great for bulwark, but that shouldn't be what is giving you trouble their racial regen is actually pretty useful at low levels, and they are completely viable even though their racials are much better for casters, rogues, and fungus classes.

As for opening doors to find very high level enemies, usually these are vaults that give you a warning when you try to open their door. Sometimes however out of depth enemies simply spawn anywhere to spice things up a bit. You can gain skills like track, or wands of detection that help you see enemies before they see you, and it's somewhat of a necessity on Nightmare since it's possible to autoexplore around a corner and get instagibbed.

DarkGod only plays on Normal/Adventure, as far as I'm aware.

That should give you an idea of what's intended. Nightmare is beatable-even Nightmare/Roguelike is-without total optimization. But it's brutal beyond belief.

Nightmare exits for people who have spent a lot of time playing Normal and want more challenge.

Play on Normal / Adventure until you feel like you're not being challenged.

4) KorPul is tier 1 dungeon so there are no lv20+ enemies, except in vaults.

Not entirely true. For starters, KorPul is among the harder T1 zones. The statistics page with the top killers also agrees with that - KorPul enemies are the top player killers at the begin of the game. KorPul together with the scintilating caves, is more like Tier 1.5. Just like Daikara is more like Tier 2.5.

As for L20, they not only happen in vaults, but might happen as a random boss, in which case they should have a name.

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As for all the loot buying crap at shops..... DarkGod is a bit overcautious about players buying stuff from shops. A few years ago, he was unsure if he wants to let players sell stuff at all. Then, selling was allowed, but pays so little that it is as if he said "Look, you can now sell stuff. I didn't say that it buys you useful stuff." Same for shop restocks... so paranoid and overcautious, that it only happens at two occassions in the game.

Now, i could tell you how to change both (selling, and restocks), but this is general discussion, and it says "no spoilars pleeze!".

I haven't seen anyone else point it out, so I'd like to say that Greatswords are two-handed weapons, so by equiping one, you automatically unequipped your shield. Bulwarks shouldn't use Greatswords, but should stick to one handed weapons so they can keep their shields.

lyx wrote:

4) KorPul is tier 1 dungeon so there are no lv20+ enemies, except in vaults.

Not entirely true. For starters, KorPul is among the harder T1 zones. The statistics page with the top killers also agrees with that - KorPul enemies are the top player killers at the begin of the game. KorPul together with the scintilating caves, is more like Tier 1.5. Just like Daikara is more like Tier 2.5.

As for L20, they not only happen in vaults, but might happen as a random boss, in which case they should have a name.

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As for all the loot buying crap at shops..... DarkGod is a bit overcautious about players buying stuff from shops. A few years ago, he was unsure if he wants to let players sell stuff at all. Then, selling was allowed, but pays so little that it is as if he said "Look, you can now sell stuff. I didn't say that it buys you useful stuff." Same for shop restocks... so paranoid and overcautious, that it only happens at two occassions in the game.

Now, i could tell you how to change both (selling, and restocks), but this is general discussion, and it says "no spoilars pleeze!".

There's a reason why KorPul kills a lot of adventurers, just like Bill in Trollmire. It's because they both are near the places people start in.

Usually I do Trollmire as my third T1, before Gloom, Scint and Rhaloren, which I guess I should call T1,75 if KorPul is T1,5.


The missing shield part sounds weird though as I haven't been able to wield a two handed weapon without manually emptying my off hand first.

Maybe he accidentaly switched to the alternate weapon set before equipping the greatsword?

catwhowalksbyhimself wrote:Maybe he accidentaly switched to the alternate weapon set before equipping the greatsword?

I've done that before. It ended... poorly.