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saves vs. resistances

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:11 pm
by youtoo
Do magic saves help with all spells? I see we have resistances and saves?
How do all resistances work with category resistances.

so if I have 9% all resistance and 54% lightning resistnace. is my resistance 63%? if i have 70% lightning resistance and 15% all resistance, do I have 85%?
how do saves factor into this?

it looks like resistances are the most important thing to put on rings, amulets, accessories if you are not anti-magic.

I am a Cornic Bulwark, level 20 and down to my last life. What should I do to prepare for mages? I'm hoping to make it to level 25 to get another life, but not hopeful. I have had trouble with drakes and mages. I have to switch EQ when I face them to beef my resistsances and turns seem to get used when I do that (or I don't notice in time).

note my resistances vary depending on what I wear. any tips?

http://te4.org/characters/22383/tome/20 ... 1f01f50a3d

Re: saves vs. resistances

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:24 pm
by Frumple
Saves help with what checks against them, generally status effects. Magic saves won't help against all spells, but it will help against many of them, particular the debuffs. Rarely there's a damage component that gets saved against, but it's not too common.

As for the resist all, it's factored into the second number, more or less (there's some specifics to the formula I never remember but eh, s'close enough). When you've got 9% resist all and you're seeing 54% lightning resistance, you've got 54% lightning resistance and you' be getting... some amount of lightning resistance less than that from kit or whatev'. The specific resistances that are displayed is your resistance to that damage type, and resall's mostly just there to let you know what your resistance is to everything you're not specifically increasing otherwise.

As for suggestions, step-up, rush. Like, yesterday. The former maxed ASAP and the latter with at least a point or two immediately and maxed later on. You sorta' look like you might have class/generic points left over, actually. Generally what you're going to do to a mage is rush->(Maybe Shield Pummel, to take advantage of the daze save reduction)->Assault (which will probably kill it, if not hit it some more)->flee back with step-up proc if there's more magi in range, then back off 'till rush cools down and repeat the process. Mobility is one of the bulwark's greatest strengths as amusing as that is, and maxed out step-up adds a tremendous amount of versatility to your battle plans.

Also, phase door runes are the kiss of loving death. Replace that with a teleport rune or movement infusion (the latter in particular is good on bulwarks, since it adds even more short-range mobility) as soon as feasible, before it gets you killed. Or at least a controlled phase door rune, they're not quite as bad.

Re: saves vs. resistances

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:16 am
by youtoo
what is the difference between mental and spell and physical saves? are these all types of magic saves? for different types of spells? what spells are mentail, physical, or magical?

Re: saves vs. resistances

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:56 am
by lukep
youtoo wrote:what is the difference between mental and spell and physical saves? are these all types of magic saves? for different types of spells? what spells are mentail, physical, or magical?
The different types of saves save against different types of effects, it doesn't matter what the source is. For example, mental saves helps against confusion from Temporal Fugue (magic), Bellowing Roar (physical), and from the monster confusion attack (mind).

Re: saves vs. resistances

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:08 am
by wobbly
Is this also true of bane of confusion. I notice it's a magical effect & take's a wild(magic) to remove. Are the effect type & the saves sometimes inconsistent?

Re: saves vs. resistances

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:06 am
by Mewtarthio
Bane of confusion is a magical effect. It's not confusion, it's a magic spell that acts like it. Much like how stun is a physical status effect while stunned by the gloom is mental. (OP: Just move your mouse over the status icon. The tooltip says what type of effect it is; the type of effect determines the proper save).

As for your build: I'm not entirely sure what EQ is, but Bulwarks really are quite vulnerable to mages. Actually everything is quite vulnerable to mages, but Bulwarks have it worse, since they're pretty well protected from everything else (drakes can be a pain, though). It cannot be stressed enough: You need Rush. Rush is the number one way for melee characters to deal with casters. There are two things that you need to survive in ToME that you don't have in your build: Distance control and escape options. The former is things like Rush for melee classes and Disengage for archers--Namely, the ability to get either right next to or far away from enemies depending on your class's playstyle. The latter is the ability to run away when things get bad--Teleport runes and movement infusions work well here. Teleport runes are probably the number one reason to not go antimagic, since they are very good escape options.

For other tips: Where exactly in the game are you, right now?

Re: saves vs. resistances

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:08 pm
by greycat
EQ is Equilibrium.

Resist all + Resist Lightning combine in an unexpected way that I attempted to explain on the "character sheet" page. (It didn't seem appropriate to make a separate Resistance page just yet.)

Specifically, 9% resist all and 50% lightning resistance from equipment/talents combine to give 54.5% net lightning resistance, which is what you would see on the character sheet (probably rounded down to 54%).

Re: saves vs. resistances

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:22 pm
by youtoo
I have switched to a thalore barb. I read the post on it on the spoiler forums. I do a little better, but having trouble. I want to go AM. I did this at level 15 with a previous character, but died once. It looks like you need saves/resists for this. anyone have a guide on what save and resist level I should should for? what resists are most important?

is there a guide about which zones have casters with which spells? I have been stockpiling resist EQ in a vault so I can swap as needed. I think Daikara is Cold/Lightning/darkness(it gets dark not sure).

It also seems like armor/rings that raise resist and to a lesser extent saves are most important right? I have been using my escort quests for this. I got spell save twice (Thalore gets a skill that raises physical/mental save).

how far along do i have to be before i can pass eq to other charactres? I have a hunch I need to do this, so I don't lose lives early. I need to donate for this right? How much?

Re: saves vs. resistances

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:37 pm
by Nivrax
AntiMagic is usually best done around 20, when you are going for Urkis. Only last enemy is guaranteed, rest is sort of random, but pretty much everything can be killed by Rush->Stun.

If you're loosing lives in Daikara, it's gameplay you have to work out, not resists. Up to 20 you should be able to handle everything at 0 res by correct positioning, healing, stunning enemies, and dispelling statuses (don't try to melee someone if you're unarmed or stunned). And do complete tutorials, they teach quite a lot.

After that, you might want Lightning Resist for Urkis and Blight resist for Dark Crypt (or just outright skip, it can be real hell). And after you advance story, you might want Fire and Cold res, then you should start getting things with multiple resistances covered easily.

As for storage, you get access to it at the end of Lake Nur, and get one slot per 2$. However, it is completely not needed ever to clear the game.

Re: saves vs. resistances

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:55 pm
by Kaja Rainbow
You don't really need to import equipment from other characters (though donating does help development on the game). Mostly it's a case of gaining experience with the game--you learn how to deal with situations and how to get out of bad ones, etc. Having movement options is very important in this game thus why the recommendation for Rush/Step Up/etc. was made above. Also, managing line of sight, for example ducking around a corner so you force the mage to come closer.

Just as important is knowing when to escape from the situation so you can recover your HP and get talents off cooldown or let nasty statuses wear off. Often in this game you'll need to make hit-and-runs. This hold true for just about every character I've played that got far at all had to cut and run at some points then come back to finish the enemy off.

Getting your defenses up helps a lot, of course, but outside a very few fairly specific and optional areas, concentrating on specific resistances for an area won't be worthwhile.