ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Dear Darkgod,

You have made an excellent game. I love it, and have been playing it on and off for a couple years. I dont have any clears, but I came pretty darn close with a dwarf bulwark one time. I am posting this to draw your attention to the way archers are easily instagibbed by their own arrows when monsters pull them. This does not make any sense. Why should the monster pull me faster than I can shoot an arrow. Just doesnt make any sense. My skeleton archer got killed by this, using both his tier 4 racial skill and my original life. Please make fix this incredibly game breaking mechanic. Makes the archer basically unplayable.

Signed,

The Desent

This is the way projectiles have always worked, and it doesn't just affect arrows: all projectiles, including bolt spells and similar effects, can be run into. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with it. Hell, half my damage from paradox mage plays is from gravity spiking mages into their own flame spells. I think it's kind of funny, actually

Question is, if it's behavior that needs changing, how would it be changed? I can't think of anything off the top of my head that wouldn't make fighting enemy projectile users a nightmare. As it is, non-instant ranged attacks add a whole host of tactical options, defensively, for the player. Having arrows -- or any projectile, really -- that just flat out ignores collision or travels instantly is an incredibly powerful thing; compare shoot to channel staff, ferex, or note the massive increase in utility that comes to flame or manathrust when they start beaming.

Insofar as dealing with projectile travel time as an archer, it's mostly getting used to what can and can't pull you, or checking beforehand. Pulls are a risk any projectile user has to be aware of, yeah.

It's quite nice when you get to take advantage of it, though ? Mindhook and bone grab can be fun for just that reason, beyond their other useful aspects.

E: Actually, as typing, maybe grant some degree of evasion to self-generated projectiles? I'unno. It seems like a bit of a cop-out in favor of the player... on the other hand, it'd also be an indirect buff for skeleton archers and suchlike vs. a few classes (and anyone that nabs that mindhook artifact glove).

Hmm... Instant-projectiles would be an interesting addon. A few skills would need to be altered/buffed, of course. I personally find the non-instant projectiles to be too confusing, despite the added tactical options.

Having a lowered damage amount from your own projectiles wouldn't be too bad. (25%? 33%? 50%?)

Outside of a few teleport skills(Dark Portal mostly), it mostly can be explained away as, well, pulling you into a projectile from the wrong end probably is going to lack the force that it would normally have. I suppose making a distinction for true teleports could work but so does just making it a gameplay-only element that doesn't need incredibly micromanaged justification.

I'm not saying this should be done, I'm kinda neutral on that, but I can see reasoning for it.

I was thinking something along the lines of that every time something is moved by a hostile effect, the same transformation is applied to all of its projectiles. (Not hitting anything in the process) Doesn't make much sense In Character, but neither does instant bone grab -.-.

More pull talents should take movement time. If the player travels at the same speed as his arrow, there is no problem. Some talents should be instant pull, though.

Do note in a roundabout way your stealing some thunder from talents like circle of sanctity (anorithil, I think that's the one that slows projectiles) and Entropic Field (paradox mages), skills explicity designed to slow projectiles to allow easier dodging. Also kind of nerfs projectile dodging with movement infusions too, I suppose.

However, I do support the idea that some pulls are instant, and some aren't. Bone grab's usage is kind of gimmicky for causing self shots on NPC's, bone grab is imho intended for gap closing with reavers (hence it being a default on reavers, and cat open on corruptor's). Meanwhile in gravity tree, that skills again not primarily used/intended to cause people to shoot themselves. I suppose it makes more sense for gravity to be an instant pull though, since in theory we're not just pulling the target but the projectile itself.

Hmm. Interesting... I for one am meh!