ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

I tried my first rogue character. He was a skeleton, so started in the Blighted Ruins. Wanting to see how stealth worked, I put three points into it as early as I could, and also happened to discover a nifty cloak of +6 to stealth. And then... nothing happened.

Level 2 of the Blighted Ruins. 95% of the monsters reacted the same way as normal - I got within sight range of them, they got a message saying "x has seen you" (or occasionally "something has seen you"), and they attacked as normal. The remaining 5% didn't spot me until I got within one or two squares of them - but still did so before I could get whatever bonuses one gets for attacking from stealth (if any - the skill description just says "harder to detect", which is rather vague) since I had no ranged abilities.

It seems unrealistic that three points in stealth, plus a cloak which effectively gave me a fourth level, would not be enough to fool a level 3 rat. So what gives? Do you need to have level 5 in stealth plus a zillion points of cunning before it's effective? And are you meant to be able to sneak up to things and backstab them with it, or it it just there for avoiding combat?

(before you ask, yes, I made sure to equip the cloak, and yes, I made sure to enable stealth before attempting to sneak - I even set it on auto-cast after a while)

You do need a decent cunning score to go alongside the Stealth, so early on it's not that great. However those "foo notices you" messages don't always mean they know your exact position. Sometimes you see that and they start wandering randomly, or even shooting spells randomly.

Partly, it's because stealth doesn't work well until you get it up to a pretty high level.

Partly, it's because enemies will notice you exist but not know where you are, so they'll wander around activating talents at random locations. You can especially see this on enemies with AOE attacks, who will often shoot their friends in their attempts to hit you. When they're in this state, you can still use Shadowstrike on them.

They have to make the check to see through stealth every turn, even AFTER they spot you. They just move or use a ranged attack (Quit shooting the wall!) in a random direction if they fail the check afterwards, and shadowstrike will work pretty often regardless. Though it doesn't fool enemies very much early on, that occasional wrong move allows you to run away pretty easily if you manage to stealth during a fight.

My level 20-something rogue with 2 sneakthief rings (+6 cunning each) was able to spend 30~ turns in a room full of enemies (and loot) without any of them spotting me, though, so it gets a lot better later on.

Thanks for the explanations. Any good tips for rogues and or shadowblades? I've only ever played mages before.

Velorien wrote:Thanks for the explanations. Any good tips for rogues and or shadowblades? I've only ever played mages before.

Rush(5) is a very good skill to have.
If you do not want to open the tree (I do at lvl 10), use boots.
At least one slime-covered dagger if you have.
Flurry is your best friend. Get it up to 5.

Infusions?
I use 'movement speed', 'teleport', '2 x regenerate life' but a good shielding rune is very handy too.

Alchemist quests I do the hermit (2class points) Last Hope (2 generic) Derth (fox) in this order.
At lvl 20 I hunt parties if I did not find my ingredients.
At party hunting, 2xmovement speed AND stealth is essential.

Stealth at 5 is VERY good.
Not extremely important up to lvl 15 or so, but later on it is extremely useful.

Your worst enemies in the early game are pinning and confusion.

Good luck!