ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

It looks like it was designed when Stun was more crippling, and never addressed. Most of the other attack + stun attacks in the game do more damage than a normal attack, but Dirty Fighting does less; while it stuns for a bit longer, I'm not sure that's really worth cutting your damage in half compared to most similar talents. (It looks particularly bad compared to Dual Strike.)

It's certainly worth using, and is a little cheaper on stamina than Dual Strike. I think maybe its cooldown should be reduced though to be more in line with Stunning Blow (which is better than all of them).

Definetely not bad considering the duration on the stun, especially if you have high Backstab/Lethality/crit damage modifier. However...I agree with Grey its cooldown could be reduced a bit.

Fairly low stamina cost and long stun that combos well with Backstab. Not to mention that melee stun is incredibly useful for a fragile melee class. I think that Dirty Fighting is the least of my problems with Rogue, though I guess it could be more useful for other classes. (Chance to Disarm, anyone?)

Please I don't want the rogues in the Assassin Lair to permastun me.

Since stun was changed... yes, it's underpowered for sure. Back then... was pretty good.

I think the Dirty Fighting talent is better than Dual Strike. Dirty Fighting has less stamina cost (which is important for rogues), the stun lasts longer, and the chance of stunning the enemy is greater (Dual Strike needs the offhand weapon to hit the enemy; Dirty Fighting needs either the mainhand or offhand weapon to hit).

I never open that tree theese days when I have the poison tree to invest in.
Dual Strike is in the tree with Flurry so I must invest point(s) there.
The main reason to stun is not to deal out extra damage, but to keep the enemy from using their talents.
But a rogue tries to fight the enemy one-vs-one so normally only one stun attack is needed.
Still, now and then you need a second stun attack vs a new enemy. Lower cooldown on Dirty Fighting would make me seriously think about using that attack instead.

As for the misses, yes that happens now and then, but is quite rare and the enemy will be poisoned and one poison I use lower their chances to cast a talent, combined with slowness from slimy dagger(s) making the rogue very good vs single opponents of almost all kinds.

Tom

Tom wrote:I never open that tree theese days when I have the poison tree to invest in.

Huh? The Dirty Fighting tree is unlocked from the start for rogues. Dirty Fighting is the very first talent in that tree, and is very worth investing in (even if just one point).

Tom wrote:The main reason to stun is not to deal out extra damage, but to keep the enemy from using their talents.

Exactly, and Dirty Fighting is better at this in every way than Dual Strike.

tiger_eye wrote:

Tom wrote:I never open that tree theese days when I have the poison tree to invest in.

Huh? The Dirty Fighting tree is unlocked from the start for rogues. Dirty Fighting is the very first talent in that tree, and is very worth investing in (even if just one point).

You are right in every sense.
I meant I do not put a point in Dirty Fighting when I spoke about investment.

Its just that I do not think I need it.
Perhaps I do. I just like to max out other skills first. Perhaps foolishly.

Tom

I put 1 point in Dirty Fighting at level 1, and then never upgrade it beyond that. It's a very useful talent, and well worth a single class point.

I personally quite like how long the stun becomes at high talent levels. I think with the upcoming changes in saving throws (reducing effect durations) Dirty Fighting will become a bit more valued.