ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you. IT IS SO DIFFICULT TO GET OFF THE GROUND as a dwarf cursed! and that has been a class ive been really interested in. but had some SERIOUS issues with.

+1

Improved start?
All "Cursed" characters now have a pathetic start because everything they find is "cursed" -- having huge maluses. You're really lucky if at level 5 you don't have -20 to all resists and -5 to all stats...
Generic points go into getting better stuff, not in fighting better

PowerWyrm wrote:Improved start?
All "Cursed" characters now have a pathetic start because everything they find is "cursed" -- having huge maluses. You're really lucky if at level 5 you don't have -20 to all resists and -5 to all stats...
Generic points go into getting better stuff, not in fighting better

...detrimental curses are pretty weak. Even assuming that you don't choose to avoid the worst ones, and wear a full set of equipment (13 items), you would get an average of about -1 to most stats, and maybe as much as -10% fire, arcane, or light resist. At level 5 you could have added a point to the second skill, which more than counters the detrimental curses if you choose good equipment over bad (which you should).

having even -2 to STR and WIL is a small malus? Go to tell this to the cursed skills... not to talking about the hit chance below the feet. Is i asked before, it could be nice if the cursing effect could be deactivated at start, so only if I choose to deal with it is activated. Or give more generic points per level is another option.

ps.(i hope the tone of the post won't look aggressive, is the written form that seems hostile XD)

Most of the curses at the start are things you can easily work around - unless you're a shaloren cursed, heh. 9 times out of 10 they drop a resistance for damage that you won't see for some time, or will drop a stat you're not using. At least, that's what I saw.

Better scaling of the curses could be very helpful. Doomed have, in my opinion, a relatively easy start since they don't need kills to build up hate and Willful Strike is tremendous for early-game crowd control. I've only played a few Cursed (most in the arena, one briefly in the main campaign) and have to say that the early game is extremely frustrating. Starting out with worse-than-trash equipment can only make things worse. I was never able to get further than the second mini-boss in the arena with Cursed. All that said, I wouldn't want Cursed to have too easy of a start. The name suggests you should be having one hell of a time.

Fateful Aura could stand to be compressed and expanded. The first two skills could be combined; the latter two could also be made into one, maybe a little further down the tree. From a design perspective, I think Cursed Form is a much better tree since it isn't focused entirely around one mechanic.

Miruko wrote:having even -2 to STR and WIL is a small malus? Go to tell this to the cursed skills... not to talking about the hit chance below the feet. Is i asked before, it could be nice if the cursing effect could be deactivated at start, so only if I choose to deal with it is activated. Or give more generic points per level is another option.

ps.(i hope the tone of the post won't look aggressive, is the written form that seems hostile XD)

If you find equipment with bad stats, you can usually find another one that isn't so bad quite easily most of the time. As for deactivating it, having the first skill be a zero cost sustain (that all the other skills provide bonuses to) could work well.

bricks wrote: Fateful Aura could stand to be compressed and expanded. The first two skills could be combined; the latter two could also be made into one, maybe a little further down the tree.

I like having the first two skills combined, but I would rather see the curses organized by effect (generic detrimental/beneficial, offensive, defensive, utility) not necessarily in that order, than by equipment slot (generic detrimental/beneficial, (rings/amulets?)???, (boots/gloves/belt?)???, Greater curses (body armour/weapons)).

Having the cursed touch as a sustain would allow you to save great items for being fully invested in the upgrade chance. +1.

I actually went to the trouble of compiling the mac version and getting back into the game so that I could try out the new version of the Cursed. Thoughts as follows:

- For the Cursed Equipment tree, in general, I like the thing. It's yet more of the "Cursed are born to a life of suffering", and I *like* that. At the same time, as far as I could tell, it's more thematic than significant. In the beginning game (which really is the savage bit for the class) the likelihood that you'll find gear that you would have wanted to use, that has a curse on it that is actually meaningful, is pretty low.
- It should not by any means be a sustain. The fact that it makes your life suck is sort of the point - just like unnatural body does at the beginning.
- The first skill, though, is problematic for a few reasons. Basically, the tree is one of two things. Either it's a straight drawback, or it's a way to invest a bunch of skill points and wind up with nifty gear that has interesting tradeoffs. If it's the former, that just sucks all over. Sure, Cursed ought to suffer at the beginning, but a full 5 point skill that doesn't even get you back to baseline when you've invested fully? That's kind of not right. The whole point of the Cursed is bending the dark power that afflicts you to your will - not just putting in a bunch of effort to try to make it somewhat less crippling. If it's the latter, then that first skill is *pointless*. If your plan for getting gear is to get skill-pumped stuff, then you *want* the curses to trigger, so that you have a chance to get your benefits on top of them. Having a skill that cuts down on the number of cursed items you're getting is a serious anti-synergy here. Either that or the descriptive wording on the skills is really quite confusing.
- The wording on the second skill looks like it applies to everything - and if that's the case, then the third and fourth skills make *no* *sense*.

Suggestions:
- Have the first skill significantly reduce the chance of getting more than one penalty, but do so by reducing it to only one curse effect, rather than not cursing things. Have it do something else, as well - like giving the Cursed some sort of minor benefit for wearing multiple pieces of cursed gear. Possibly something having to do with Hate management? Possibly something like a 0.5% across-the-board boost to damage per skill point per slot? (meaning that if you're wearing 10 slots full of cursed gear and have maxxed out the skill, you get a 25% damage boost to everything - still not overwhelming, given skills like weapon expertise.) Just give it something so that there actually *is* some benefit to the skill (however peripheral) even without the rest of the tree.
- Clarify the wording on the skills. Right now, it reads like the third and fourth skills are entirely redundant once you have the second.

- Interestingly to me, the changes to Armor Proficiency hit me a lot harder than the cursed gear. Cursed in the beginning-game are constantly hungry for generic points. This is as it should be, to a degree, but the fact that I started the game 3 generic points away from being able to wear shields *stung*, given the immediate need for things like weapon combat (a bit), weapon expertise (more), and unnatural body(lots).

Sirrocco wrote:- Interestingly to me, the changes to Armor Proficiency hit me a lot harder than the cursed gear. Cursed in the beginning-game are constantly hungry for generic points. This is as it should be, to a degree, but the fact that I started the game 3 generic points away from being able to wear shields *stung*, given the immediate need for things like weapon combat (a bit), weapon expertise (more), and unnatural body(lots).

It's especially crappy since Hate is not affected by fatigue. Whether or not my Dwarf Cursed can beat Brotoq seems to be entirely a function of whether I found some chain mail to wear.

Maybe Cursed should start with Chain armour, and the two points in Armour Training that go along with it.

That would certainly help supply a few of the incredible number of Generic points needed in the early game.