ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

I am interested in learning more about how T4 actually works.

This is probably a kind of big question. I'm not a programmer, but I would like to learn more about how the game works.

The question, more specifically, is where should I start? Obviously it is easy to get the code, but I really don't know how it all works together.

I'm thinking that if I can understand how this game that I really love works, maybe I will learn enough to do something useful with the engine or some other aspect of programming.

I'm looking for something I might read that will help me understand the architecture of the program?

I realize this is a big and kind of open ended question. Perhaps I am such a novice that this question doesn't even make sense. Think of it this way: If you were to use the src of t4 as a course on programming, where would it start? Perhaps there are prerequisites---that's fine...what are they?

Just as a general framework, I can handle the specifics. I'm not formally trained in the theory of computer programming, but I have read a few chapters from Knuth. I wouldn't call myself a programmer in practice either, but I've written enough code and understand enough syntax that I'm not afraid.

Thanks.

Its a question i have been wanting to.document too, but havent cause i dont understand so well.

First tip is to grab a new version and activate cheating. Check that you have lua console active. I am unsure if yufra's latest changes to.the console is in. anyway assuming its in.

pressing ctrl-space opens up the available.objects and/or the comments surrounding the function you want to use.

almost all important stuff lies in the object called game.

anyway, under lua console tab gives you all available objects, and then game.<tab> gives you all under game etc.

game.map and game.entities are two low level stuff that implements huge portions if what we call the game.

The most important step is to join the IRC channel #tome on the rizon server, for there are all the people that can answer your questions quickly.

Learning the LUA basics helps to know about stuff like multiple return values or that functions can be called with more or less parameters than they were defined for. Check the ToME wiki for links.

Start small! Create addons that change things with the help of the IRC guys to increase your code familiarity. Creating a new talent should be a good start. Dont be afraid of copy/pasting from similiar talents as long as you try to understand how it works.

Browsing through the whole code once is probably no bad idea either, even if you wont understand some things at first.

The example module from the wiki is a bit outdated, but is probably better to learn stuff like interface and inventory from than from the more complex ToME code.

Best way I can describe it is this...

There are three layers to any game using the T-Engine. The first is the engine itself, which has a huge number of functions which are standard to most games. This covers a lot of display stuff as well as core game mechanics like map generation and inventory management. You can find a list of engine functions and a few details of how they operate here:

http://te4.org/docs/t-engine4/1.0.0beta32/index.html

Might be a little out of date though... For a module to make use of engine functions it must declare the appropriate engine file as "required". You can see this clearly as the start of many code files in any module.

At the next layer is the module's class files, stored in t-engine/game/module/foo/class. These tends to cover the turn by turn mechanics. Game.lua governs the display and ui, how the game is initiated, and sometimes a few gameplay things. Actor.lua governs all NPCs and the Player, but ultimately isn't used as much as NPC.lua and Player.lua, which contain dedicated code just for NPCs or the Player. Player.lua is probably the most gameplay important file in the whole module. These class files contain most of the functions for the game, sometimes calling on engine functions to support them. They can also ignore engine functions and use their own thing - for instance you may want to write your own dungeon generator or AI routines instead of using the default engine ones. Also in class is the interface folder, which contains some relevant stuff like Combat.lua, which controls how actors behave in combat. In ToME4 a lot of the actual nitty gritty combat stuff goes on in DamageTypes.lua.

At the final layer is the data files, stored in t-engine/game/module/foo/data. Zones is the most important folder, as it contains the reference to each area and how it is generated. It also contains the dependencies on other data - which NPCs and objects to use, what grids (tiles) to use, etc. You could technically put most of the game into the individual zones files, but in ToME4 a lot of the stuff used across many zones is put in data/general/foo. Data files tend to be simple array fillers with variable declarations, but can also call on engine and class functions, or write their own functions to get things done.

To get a feel for all this I suggest studying a small module like Run from the Shadow or Broken Bottle to see how the parts inter-relate. ToME4 is a much bigger beast and so is harder to study.

+1 to everything mentioned above (and Reenen, there is copy/paste functionality in the Lua console, just do Ctrl+C/V).

If you really are after something a bit drier, you can look at the T-Engine Documentation. This is an automatically generated set of documents that takes the in-code comments to flesh out the API and could help give the big picture. It will have gaping omissions since most of the devs basically code-dive to figure things out, and rarely do we go back and improve the docs. Feel free to point out omissions to increase the likelihood of updates.

Thank you very much. Exactly the kind of thing I wanted to know.

Hello everyone.

Let me start by saying I'm a first time reader and first time poster. I encountered ToME, T4 and these forums today, for the first time in my life. Now bear with me if you please, my story is quite a long one

My name's Andy, I'm 28 and I am (as far as game development & programming is concerned) really a nobody. However I've been pondering creating a game ever since I first played Dungeon Master, Eye of the Beholder and old Ultimas and oh, whatnot really. But then again who hasn't?

A few weeks ago I picked up on the idea, mainly due to a frustration caused by the lack of good RPGs for mobile platforms (bar the sometimes amazing but annoying freemium games - a business model I myself hate to pieces). Also, I've been cleaning my long forgotten folders containing files from my old PCs I backed up countless times. Among tons of useless crap, thing I once considered invaluable and now I wouldn't even spend 3 seconds to delete it, I found one gem. Not a piece of garbage like old poetry (haha), scans of drawings or offline version of pages I used to save when dial-up modem and insane telephone bill prices made me read stuff offline. A true, genuine gem. A word file consisting of various notes and ideas coming together as a draft of a pen&paper RPG I've been working on with a friend of mine years ago. So I sat down and thought - hey, I'm old enough, time to make a game instead of thinking of making one. And here I am...

I have (mostly useless) notes describing the world, its mechanics, skills, races, dice rolls mechanics, skills, talents, feats, combat system, magic, all kinds of things. First thing I did was deleting and rewriting 90% of it, but still, the skeleton is there. Ready to be used as a resource. Then I started a long search...

I've done a thorough research on the subject, tried choosing a platform, engine or language to create the game in. A friend of mine who programmes for living helped me a lot and we narrowed down our choices. I was convinced to learn (as I said, I have absolute zero knowledge and programming skill) and create my game in HTML5, supporting myself with extensive use of JavaScript. Last few days I spent drafting various ideas and sketching art, looking for inspiration on the web, and I stumbled upon ToME4. I read a bit about T-Engine4, LUA and I must say I am astounded. This is exactly what I've been looking for, at least at a first glance.

I wanted to say I'm probably a fool, trying to ask for advice and guidance to be able to learn programming and build upon T4 without any coding knowledge or skills, but then I read how gently the OP was treated here, which game me hope

I have a few questions, about ToME, about the engine et al., as I'm a complete layman and the whole thing is difficult for me to comprehend. To make things easier here is a handful of question I would be most grateful if you could answer:

• Is it even possible to learn programming at the age of 28, without ANY programming knowledge at all (all I know are some html tags from attempts on creating websites) and with very limited time (TL;DR - Currently on top of a full time job, I'm building a house and trying to sort out my wedding, so you can imagine I only have a few hours every other day to sit at night and try to create things)?
• Granted that's possible, is T4 / ToME available for altering and honestly a complete revamp? I read it's open sourced and free to use under GNU license but I don't quite understand how it works fully. I tried reading the license but my head's killing me, so before I print and read it thoroughly one question (maybe it will save me the effort) - can I use (being all grateful, respectful and humbled where it's due) the game engine and create my own game based on that? I'm talking my own graphics, sound, game mechanics, world... all I would like to "borrow" is the core?
• Granted answer to former questions is positive, how much tailoring can be done to the T4 / ToME? I have a custom combat mechanics based on dice rolls, based roughly on GURPS but very much altered (beyond recognition) and adjusted to the needs of me and my old friends we've been roleplaying with for almost 2 decades. On top of that our game's leveling system is completly different and a bit reverse to the canon (you do not gain experience to gain levels to gain points to raise attributes and skills... you spend exp on skills and attributed and upon spending a certain pool of exp you gain levels, which in turn grant you some bonuses but generally are just a cosmetic thing, there are no levels per se in our mechanic)?
• Do you want to kill me yet for my wall of text and utterly chaotic questions? Well, that's bad, I am just starting (granted I will not get lynched)

And a closing statement. You know my name, you also know I have no programming skills. Should have probably started however, with something a bit different. I am no roguelike layman, and no RPG novice. I've been living in countless, fantastic worls ever since I first touched Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay and watched some oldschool "fantasy" themed films (Willow!). The urge & intention to create a game of my own have been following me for ages, but I am not such a big fool I often picture myself as, and if I am aiming too high, I will settle down doing what I excel at. I will design and create a world on paper, in a form of a pen&paper RPG. I'm a great fan of mobile devices and new technologies though, so my ultimate goal is creating a quality product for people to enjoy on their phones and/or tablets equipped with Android OS, since that's what I personally am lacking.

There. Thank you in advance for any answers, hopefully I can spark an interesting discussion and gain some valuable knowledge, and possibly meet some new friends!

Yours,
Risu.

risu wrote:Hello everyone.

Hello and welcome! Let's dive in to your questions...

Is it even possible to learn programming at the age of 28, without ANY programming knowledge at all (all I know are some html tags from attempts on creating websites) and with very limited time (TL;DR - Currently on top of a full time job, I'm building a house and trying to sort out my wedding, so you can imagine I only have a few hours every other day to sit at night and try to create things)?

Yes, totally! Uh, well, the time might be an issue, but the age is not. I took up programming and game design at 26 and have made 9 games in the last 3 years. None large scale, but all unique in some way. I started using the T-Engine in a 7-day game making challenge, and with no prior knowledge of Lua or how the engine worked, yet still produced a highly acclaimed game in the 7 days ("Broken Bottle" - check my sig). Having a background in mathematics or science helps a bit with the logical thinking aspect, but I think anyone can get to grips with it if they try.

Having enough time can be an issue, but that's the same for all hobbies.

Granted that's possible, is T4 / ToME available for altering and honestly a complete revamp? I read it's open sourced and free to use under GNU license but I don't quite understand how it works fully. I tried reading the license but my head's killing me, so before I print and read it thoroughly one question (maybe it will save me the effort) - can I use (being all grateful, respectful and humbled where it's due) the game engine and create my own game based on that? I'm talking my own graphics, sound, game mechanics, world... all I would like to "borrow" is the core?

Yup, all allowed, and been done before. I've made 6 games using the T-Engine. None use code from ToME itself (well, some snippets taken here and there) but instead rely on the core Engine for display, data structures, etc. It's possible to add your own graphics etc and release your own game separate from ToME. The GNU license means that when re-using the code you must also have that code be GNU licensed - so open source, but it can still be commercial if you want.

Granted answer to former questions is positive, how much tailoring can be done to the T4 / ToME?

Firstly separate out the idea of modifying ToME. To start making a game in the T-Engine you would normally begin with the example module, which is incredibly simple, and build upon it. You can define all of your own combat mechanics etc, and myself and others can provide help on how to do that. You don't need combat or levels or anything else if you don't want - the engine is immensely flexible.

I would strongly recommend starting with a very very simple project though. It sounds like you have some grand ideas, but you really need to start with baby steps. Do some simple lua tutorials online, then check out the example that comes with the T-Engine (or alternatively my latest simple game "The Broody Vole"). Try fiddling with the files in the game/modules folder, in particular npcs.lua in the data folder or Combat.lua in class/interface. You might break things now and then, but that's the only way to learn :)

Do you want to kill me yet for my wall of text and utterly chaotic questions? Well, that's bad, I am just starting (granted I will not get lynched) :)

Nope, but you might want to consider starting a new thread for further questions, probably in the Modules subforum. And get on IRC - lots of people answer questions there.

I'm a great fan of mobile devices and new technologies though, so my ultimate goal is creating a quality product for people to enjoy on their phones and/or tablets equipped with Android OS, since that's what I personally am lacking.

Well the T-Engine currently can't help you there, unfortunately. Hopefully one day it'll get ported to Android, but it doesn't look like it'll happen any time soon.

(snip)

Grey wrote:

risu wrote:Is it even possible to learn programming at the age of 28, without ANY programming knowledge at all (all I know are some html tags from attempts on creating websites) and with very limited time (TL;DR - Currently on top of a full time job, I'm building a house and trying to sort out my wedding, so you can imagine I only have a few hours every other day to sit at night and try to create things)?

Yes, totally! Uh, well, the time might be an issue, but the age is not. I took up programming and game design at 26 and have made 9 games in the last 3 years. None large scale, but all unique in some way. I started using the T-Engine in a 7-day game making challenge, and with no prior knowledge of Lua or how the engine worked, yet still produced a highly acclaimed game in the 7 days ("Broken Bottle" - check my sig). Having a background in mathematics or science helps a bit with the logical thinking aspect, but I think anyone can get to grips with it if they try.

Having enough time can be an issue, but that's the same for all hobbies.

Well, that's definitely what I wanted to hear. My math knowledge is fairly limited, but I am an engineer after all (not an engineer per se, I mean my diploma if that makes sense) so I think I should be able to grasp it if you say it can be picked up w/o major experience from young age. My question may seem silly, but when I look at my friends who are software engineers or coders, or simply web designers - all of them have been deep into programming since the very young age, and at the moment know multiple programming languages, so I wasn't sure I can manage to create a game within a decade

Grey wrote:

risu wrote:Granted that's possible, is T4 / ToME available for altering and honestly a complete revamp? I read it's open sourced and free to use under GNU license but I don't quite understand how it works fully. I tried reading the license but my head's killing me, so before I print and read it thoroughly one question (maybe it will save me the effort) - can I use (being all grateful, respectful and humbled where it's due) the game engine and create my own game based on that? I'm talking my own graphics, sound, game mechanics, world... all I would like to "borrow" is the core?

Yup, all allowed, and been done before. I've made 6 games using the T-Engine. None use code from ToME itself (well, some snippets taken here and there) but instead rely on the core Engine for display, data structures, etc. It's possible to add your own graphics etc and release your own game separate from ToME. The GNU license means that when re-using the code you must also have that code be GNU licensed - so open source, but it can still be commercial if you want.

Amazing news, even better with the requirement of keeping license open. If I ever manage to make the game, I don't think there is anything coller than having others picking up on it and recreating it as they see fit.

Grey wrote:

risu wrote:Granted answer to former questions is positive, how much tailoring can be done to the T4 / ToME?

Firstly separate out the idea of modifying ToME. To start making a game in the T-Engine you would normally begin with the example module, which is incredibly simple, and build upon it. You can define all of your own combat mechanics etc, and myself and others can provide help on how to do that. You don't need combat or levels or anything else if you don't want - the engine is immensely flexible.

I understand, thank you for clarification. I started reading the (vastly outdated from what I've seen, yet helpful) tutorials in Wiki on TE4 website, fiddled with init.lua and then started reading all the other files. I must say I am surprised how logical it looks. I can't explain it any better, as I don't possess any programming knowledge at all, but going through skills.lua (or whatever the name was) I found myself being able to sort of imagine and understand how the mechanics of that works, even though I didn't understand some lines referring to the very engine and asking the engine to do something (e.g. knockback effect under the "kick" ability). At least that's how I see it now.

I will definitely go through some beginners LUA tutorials and fiddle with the basic module. I will only touch the engine when I feel confident as I get more knowledge and experience, but your answers are a great, great start. Gave me hope Oh, and I already explored your blog. Didn't have chance to play any of your games yet, but I will definitely try them this week.

(snip)

Grey wrote:

risu wrote:Do you want to kill me yet for my wall of text and utterly chaotic questions? Well, that's bad, I am just starting (granted I will not get lynched)

Nope, but you might want to consider starting a new thread for further questions, probably in the Modules subforum. And get on IRC - lots of people answer questions there.

Oh, okay, I only started here as I've seen people being shouted at numerous times for starting a new thread and not using the search function (not on this forum), so first thing I did was a quick search, picking a topic closely related to what I was going to ask for (TE4 mechanics and accessibility) and posted For further questions I'll create a thread of my own and try to join IRC (if I still remember how to do it from the old days ).

Grey wrote:

risu wrote:I'm a great fan of mobile devices and new technologies though, so my ultimate goal is creating a quality product for people to enjoy on their phones and/or tablets equipped with Android OS, since that's what I personally am lacking.

Well the T-Engine currently can't help you there, unfortunately. Hopefully one day it'll get ported to Android, but it doesn't look like it'll happen any time soon.

Oh, I was under the impression LUA is working on Android, but if there are some troubles with TE4, I'll simply port it myself when I am skilled enough (*cough*).

Thanks a lot for answering, Grey, I appreciate your help.

I'll have to concur to all Grey said and enlight the "start very very small" part.
You sound like you have a nice idea so your first step must be to mostly scratch it and do something stupidly simple Well more like, put it back in your head do the very very basic base of it and enhance from here.
Oh and fully understand that if you knew programming it would take you a long time to make a big game. You dont, so it'll take you longer but it's just as possible (and that's why simple start helps too gets you playing your own game faster)

If you really want to go through with it (and I'd love that) please join #tome on irc.rizon.net you'll find much help.

As for not being a coder; take hope from edge2054: last year he had no idea how to code and now he creates full new complex classes for ToME

PS: It's Lua not LUA Lua is not an acronym it means moon in portugese

darkgod wrote:PS: It's Lua not LUA Lua is not an acronym it means moon in portugese

:O I had no idea.

If you are looking to develop for mobile, the libtcod roguelike library now has some support for Android devices. However, that would be an extremely ambitious place to start.

Starting small is definitely the way to go, although you need to figure out exactly what that means for you. I've been working on the same project for a few months now after years of false starts. The trick was to regard any ideas I had as little more than starting points, as opposed to finished mechanics, and to establish for myself a small set of readily attainable goals.

What are the odds? risu, if you had waited one day, you could have read grey and darkgod's responses to me asking the exactly same questions , although I have a bit of a head start on you on the scripting and programming side . No experience with Lua, but syntax is the easy part.



I just found ToME a few days ago and I'm thrilled to learn how flexible the t4 engine is. I've had a few RPG ideas floating around my head for quite awhile and I think I have found my project for this winter when I refuse to leave the house unless it's on fire.