ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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 Post subject: Demonoligist meta today
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:19 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:21 pm
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Location: From Russia with atchoum!
So, what happened to Demo's staff build now, as accuracy bonus was capped?
Is it viable now?
Can sword be good in terms of damage?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:28 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:09 pm
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Was it the accuracy bonus that led Demonologists to use staves?

Apart from the out-of-standard-damage-types acid cone (...which can certainly do good damage), where can they generate significant damage from procs that benefit from accuracy? I suppose next on the list would be Demon Blade?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:42 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 9:17 pm
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There's all of three talents in their stuff that would appear to factor in main-hand accuracy (demon seed, assault, rush) to begin with, with demon blade and some of the seeds maybe counting as actually benefiting from it, but they're able to proc off shield hits anyway. Anything a staff does on that front a shield does literally just as well (they have the same accuracy bonus, heh), and so far as I'm aware a demonologist never went staves for its acc bonus anyway (it was all about the spellpower and % damage boost).

So, uh. I'd guess demonologist staff build is in more or less the exact same place it was prior to the cap? If you can fit it in with the shield (one-hander, ogre) it's probably good stuff. Swapping might work, too, I guess, if you can afford to lose the turn to do it...


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:09 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:21 pm
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It was because staves had accuracy bonus that incteased proc power.
Maybe shields didn't had it before?
Anyway, shield skills has cd, so meleeing enemies to proc cone of acid worth it.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:23 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

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Shields have had the same accuracy bonus for a while now, iirc. Shield skills do have CD, but I'm not sure stuff survives more than one full cycle often enough to super matter? The extra proc boost from staves (still able to be gotten, really...) would only help so much (especially compared to just the non-acc staff stuff). I just can't really see it making or breaking a character either way. It's nice but not particularly significant.

... do you ever actually hit the 200% limit as is, anyway? You'd need to, what, beat their defense by 80 to hit it? Is that a thing that really happens with any regularity these days? I legit don't know, most of my winners don't even hit 80 accuracy, nevermind beat it by enough to reliably outmatch enemy defense by that much. Be kinda' weird to hyperfocus accuracy on a demonologist anyway, especially for what amounts to just a proc boost on a few sources of your damage. Feels like you'd get more bang for your buck just stacking general % damage or critmod or whatev'.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:16 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:21 pm
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Location: From Russia with atchoum!
Well, I saw someone oneshotted Sweet Duo with Acid Cone with char maxed accuracy.
Just for the sake of builds divercity, I made demo who was maxing his defences with Ghoul, full Con, Corrupted Shell and Crafty Hands.
But you could do attack-focused type, in hope your attack will be so devastating your little defence will be enough, something liek that.


Also I do have a question, as I don't understand and a bit confused - you have demon seed (Acid Cone) in your staff, right?
But it procs also with shield strikes right? And maybe from something else? Shouldn't it proc only from staff hits?
I completely confused lol.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:48 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:09 pm
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GlassGo wrote:
Also I do have a question, as I don't understand and a bit confused - you have demon seed (Acid Cone) in your staff, right?
But it procs also with shield strikes right? And maybe from something else? Shouldn't it proc only from staff hits?
I completely confused lol.
Weapon demon seed effects such as Acid Cone and Flame Bolts do not imbue weapons with a proc-on-hit effect, they give you a passive talent that procs on weapon hit. If you have multiple weapons that you can put those seeds in, you have your choice of multiple different seeds or adding together their talent levels (up to a limit).


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:15 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 9:17 pm
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All the demon seed melee proc stuff work off melee damage -- they're basically on-melee effects like you see on randarts. So a seed in your staff or wherever will proc off shield hits, or even unarmed attacks if you have flexible combat or iron grip or somethin'. Can probably do some neat stuff there via psy-shot, for adven junk, now that I think about it...

Also ninja'd a bit on that, but eh.

I'd be curious what sort of build managed to one-shot the sorcerer duo with acc boosted corrosive cone, if that's who the sweet ones are. Just on normal, a quick check suggests you'd need over a 100 acc to beat the lower of the two's defense by more than 200%, and fiddling with dev mode suggests a hard invest (cat point in combat training and combat techniques, adept, 60 dex, maxed out precise and perfect strike... didn't check PES, but I guess that would be the remaining prodigy you could take to get accuracy as high as it can get) idles your baseline at around 100 with perfect strike active. You could push that further with super heavy (or super lucky) equipment focus on accuracy, but, like... by how much? Then to one-shot, you'd need a cone doing somewhere over 16k damage, through like 50%+ resall? That's pretty intense.

I guess they could use the gate summoned stuff to pull out a lower defense enemy to proc the cone off of? Use tinker summon, maybe?

Either way, after actually looking a little, it does look a lot like the 200% cap isn't actually a major nerf either way? You're only going to hit it on later game stuff if you're kinda excessively hard investing in accuracy, and I don't think you could go super far beyond it even if the cap wasn't there. So you maybe lose a bit of the extreme damage spike, but you'd still be getting a huge boost.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:45 pm 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:46 pm
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Demo pre-buffing for 1 minute before killing Elandar and Argoniel simultaneously with just one attack : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfxWhx12Pd8

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:51 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

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Oh. That, uh. Didn't really have much to do with the staff proc boost, did it? It was there, but if it was over 200% it wasn't by much, and it wasn't what really did... all that... regardless. Eyeballing it, anyway... icons and crap are a pain in the ass to recognize compared to classic UI, heh. When I read one-shot, I was thinking the cone itself did all the damage in one go, not a bunch of other stuff triggering the cone a bunch of times in one turn.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:08 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:21 pm
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Location: From Russia with atchoum!
The video I saw was with Drem... But it was the same or alsmost the same.

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