ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2020 12:24 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:40 am
Posts: 711
I'M BACK.
Will it stay that way? (Dark)god only knows.

locked_desc = "One must climb before they fall; fight the fight and heed the call. Seek the dragon's blood and skill to find and embrace nature's will."
(Unlock Wyrmics, Summoners, or Stone Wardens to unlock the Fallen Meditant)


Today, I bring you the Fallen Meditant, a class I had planned out before I left but wasn't excited enough to finish, and suddenly felt a burning desire to complete. Their primary themes are:
-The interplay of disciplined unarmed combat and hateful savagery
-Hitting a whole buncha times (I had to special-case their flagship talent to not proc flexible combat)
-Punching you from multiple tiles away

Check out the addon here!

As a Fallen Meditant, you have access to the following talent trees.

Base Game Class Trees
-Wild-Gift/Cold Drake*
-Wild-Gift/Mucus*
-Cursed/Gloom*
-Cunning/Poisons
-Technique/Bloodthirst (High Level, Unlockable)

Base Game Generic Trees
-Wild-Gift/Call*
-Technique/Combat Training
-Technique/Mobility
(Access to Cursed/Cursed Aura)


New Class Trees
-Wild-Gift/Discipline
-Cursed/Fury
-Wild-Gift/Focus (High Level, Unlockable)
-Cursed/Ferality (High Level, Unlockable)

New Generic Tree
Wild-Gift/Frozen Fist


*These talent trees have their prerequisites altered to use the best of your Cunning and Willpower.

For full talent descriptions, please see this document, although it'll take me a while after posting this to have it working!

Patch Notes
Initial Release (1,0,0)
-Released

1.0.1
-Meditant Dash, shattering strike, peak condition, predation tooltips improved.
-The "breath" on Venomous Fist now scales with Deadly Reach. Talent icon now has a green droplet cause it looked wrong without one.
-Fixed mindrot prereq, frozen colossus prereq, Hunger prereq...
-Call of the wild tree now uses cun/will prereq too
-Early game peak condition effects duration reduction buff.
-changed Deadly Reach scaling to not be so weird
-Removed nature dam from Forest of Blood - they get it from Poisons - and buffed Bleed damage.
-Halved cold resist from way of the mountain.
-Removed mindpower from meditant soul - they get it from Gloom. (This is gonna be a pattern)
-Removed physpower from Hunger - they're Str primary and get empty hand.
-Hate gain removed from Fractured Blow - they get it from Gloom. How obvious is it that I did all my testing without Gloom and Mucus and Poisons active?
-Wait why did predation have an Equi cost oops
-Swapped the effects of Avalanche and Bramblecrush. (And thus their damage types)
-Then swapped positions of Bramblecrush and Fractured Blow, giving you a lvl 1 stun.
-Fixed a transgression bug resulting in four 50% damage attacks instead of 33% damage attacks.
-EVENTUALLY fixed a tooltip bug in Fractured Blow. (I'd misplaced some ( ) so the result was 1.5 instead of the expected 30-50.)
-Clarified inability to heavy armor/weapons in cat. descriptions and first relevant talent of each new category.
-Reduced Equi costs across the board since willpower is like your fourth, fifth stat priority.
-Clarity in Blood no longer procs on talents you don't know, such as those from glove on-hits.
-Speaking of glove on hits, gloves that proc'd Disarm, Cripple, or Stone Touch were feeling very sad if you were out of range when you used them. We now apply Deadly Reach to these talents. Reproach isnt changed because more range means more targets means less damage, and Dominate isn't changed because it works at range, just not well.
-We get an even worse problem with adventurers with Double Strike, so that gets it too. If I ever fix up celestialoddities, dawn's aura will too.
-All damage you do during transgression, except the attacks themselves, does half damage.
-...after realising that Flexible Combat does 100% damage per hit, I sorrowfully removed its synergy with seven-handed strike. It can now only proc once per talent. Well, it might be able to proc per target on things that hit multiple foes? whatever.
-Fixed cursed aura?
-Nerfed literally every weapon damage function

Future Notes
-


Last edited by astralInferno on Thu May 14, 2020 3:15 am, edited 11 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2020 2:21 am 
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Higher

Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:41 pm
Posts: 55
Way of the Mountain gives too much cold resistance for a silly flavor stat.
Meditant Soul looks like it does way too much mindpower.
Frozen Colossus has no stat/level requirements.
Frozen Colossus refers to Ancestral Healing - what is that? Not a Meditant or base game talent.
Frozen Colossus scales cooldown with levels as well, and that doesn't seem great for a generic. I'd either leave it at 10, or set it to 5.
Peak Condition does too much and too little. 5% off detrimental effects is nothing, and needs to start higher with a single point to be meaningful. But then the talent also does cold damage, knockback and potentially clears an effect. It would be more coherent without the cold push, and maybe if it took duration off of negative effects you have instead of simply clearing one, so it synergizes with itself. Also why is it weapon speed when it doesn't make a weapon attack?

Transgression is insane and probably unbalanceable. You would be better off making it 2 attacks all the time, and raising the damage with levels, rather than going up to 4.
Hunger has level 10 requirements, not level 14. It probably doesn't need to give physical power - sensing enemies is enough for a talent, look at Cursed. And you already have a physical power source in their unarmed gains and in Bloodthirst.
Bloodthirst's hate gain should probably be in a basic tree somehow since it's resource management. Or just not exists, because either Fractured Blow is enough and this gives you too much, or Fractured Blow is not enough and this becomes mandatory.
Predation is a nice talent. Love the description. Doesn't say how the execute damage scales though.

Discipline's talents are fun and useful.
The stun should maybe come at a lower level, even level 1.
Seven Hand Strike seems like it may as well say 'all enemies within range 2 die'. :wink: 11 Attacks, however weak they might be, is too many.

Fractured Blow has a broken description somehow. 1% damage?
You don't need a nature on-hit in Forest of Blood; you already have the entire Poisons tree.

Class seems like it really wants antimagic / fungus, but I'm a doomelf so w/e


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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2020 7:20 am 
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Thalore

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:43 pm
Posts: 192
Brief feedback from initial testing:
- Forest of Bloods on-hit just feels bad. I get that you can't give significant amounts, due to the massive number of attacks, but 15 nature damage at tl5 with 100 mind power is... very underwhelming. The same applies to the life gained from Tranquility.
- If you have gloves of war-making (chance to use Cripple on hit), the Cripple proc will not make an attack if you are not in melee range.
- Nowhere in the class descriptions does it say you can't use heavy armor.
- Glove on-hit talents can trigger Clarity in Blood.
- If you are on an adventurer and learn Double Strike along with Deadly Reach, attacking an enemy outside of melee just causes... nothing to happen. If you know Transgression, that attack will be made if it is not on cooldown, but otherwise, you just stand there awkwardly wobbling. No attack will be made and no time will pass.
- Transgression will trigger on your basic attack even if you are holding a weapon.


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 6:41 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:40 am
Posts: 711
Recaiden wrote:
Way of the Mountain gives too much cold resistance for a silly flavor stat.
Meditant Soul looks like it does way too much mindpower.
Frozen Colossus has no stat/level requirements.
Frozen Colossus refers to Ancestral Healing - what is that? Not a Meditant or base game talent.
Frozen Colossus scales cooldown with levels as well, and that doesn't seem great for a generic. I'd either leave it at 10, or set it to 5.

I agree with all these but the last. I'll probably cut Way of the Mountain's top end in half, and honestly I might remove Meditant Soul's mindpower entirely. I forgot that they can get a bonus to that from Gloom.
Frozen Colossus I'll fix. It's meant to be Ancestral Life.
I don't really see why the cooldown scaling is weird, though? or why it being generic matters in regards to that?

Quote:
Peak Condition does too much and too little. 5% off detrimental effects is nothing, and needs to start higher with a single point to be meaningful. But then the talent also does cold damage, knockback and potentially clears an effect. It would be more coherent without the cold push, and maybe if it took duration off of negative effects you have instead of simply clearing one, so it synergizes with itself. Also why is it weapon speed when it doesn't make a weapon attack?

as we were talking on discord, this one benefits a lot from investment, and the det effects reduction scale with mindpower. That's the part of the talent I'd be most likely to remove, though.
It's weapon speed due to being a talent for unarmed characters in an unarmed tree. They have very little reason to build mindspeed, so I don't really want to have this one talent over here scaling on mindspeed.

Quote:
Transgression is insane and probably unbalanceable. You would be better off making it 2 attacks all the time, and raising the damage with levels, rather than going up to 4.

I'm sure you're right. Ain't gonna tho.
This class started back when I was playing Heroes of the Storm and I tried out Kharazim, the monk. His ultimate attack was Seven Handed Strike, and he had an upgrade giving it +4 hits. I literally made this class so as to copy the feeling of using that ability.
I'll be nerfing transgression to hopefully make it less dumb with on-hits, but I'm not likely to lower the attacks.

Quote:
Hunger has level 10 requirements, not level 14. It probably doesn't need to give physical power - sensing enemies is enough for a talent, look at Cursed. And you already have a physical power source in their unarmed gains and in Bloodthirst.
Bloodthirst's hate gain should probably be in a basic tree somehow since it's resource management. Or just not exists, because either Fractured Blow is enough and this gives you too much, or Fractured Blow is not enough and this becomes mandatory.
Predation is a nice talent. Love the description. Doesn't say how the execute damage scales though.

Will fix Hunger, and you're probably right on the physpower. I'm actually likely to remove the hate gain from fractured blow; once again, I forgot that Gloom did that.
(when I tested all my talents working, I didnt learn any Mucus/Gloom talents cause. they work. I dont gotta test them or their interactions.)
That's also why I put hate/equi gain on Tranquility and Hunger. Given that, I'll probably take the added-last-minute hate off of fractured blow. That still leaves the option to grab hunger if you want a bit more freedom to spam hate moves. Honestly, I should probably make their equi costs a bit less mean, since they dont build willpower.

Quote:
Discipline's talents are fun and useful.
The stun should maybe come at a lower level, even level 1.
Seven Hand Strike seems like it may as well say 'all enemies within range 2 die'. :wink: 11 Attacks, however weak they might be, is too many.

Thanks!
Hmmmmm. I can maybe shuffle things to put the stun at 1, but I do feel like they need to start with deadly reach... swap Bramblecrush and Avalanche then swap bramblecrush with fractured blow, maybe...
You're probably right but, same thing as with Transgression, it's what the entire class was built around. I'll probably put the "on-hits do half damage" I was planning for transgression onto the whole talent.

Quote:
Fractured Blow has a broken description somehow. 1% damage?
You don't need a nature on-hit in Forest of Blood; you already have the entire Poisons tree.

o - does it (checks her current save) so it does. I probably forgot the *100.
...and you're right, honestly. That also means I can buff the bleed a lil.

Quote:
Class seems like it really wants antimagic / fungus, but I'm a doomelf so w/e

rip. yeah, it's meant to get both cursed aura and be a prime antimagic candidate, and I didn't remember to make cursed aura work. That leaves it pretty short on generics, too. :(

Erenion wrote:
Brief feedback from initial testing:
- Forest of Bloods on-hit just feels bad. I get that you can't give significant amounts, due to the massive number of attacks, but 15 nature damage at tl5 with 100 mind power is... very underwhelming. The same applies to the life gained from Tranquility.
- If you have gloves of war-making (chance to use Cripple on hit), the Cripple proc will not make an attack if you are not in melee range.
- Nowhere in the class descriptions does it say you can't use heavy armor.
- Glove on-hit talents can trigger Clarity in Blood.
- If you are on an adventurer and learn Double Strike along with Deadly Reach, attacking an enemy outside of melee just causes... nothing to happen. If you know Transgression, that attack will be made if it is not on cooldown, but otherwise, you just stand there awkwardly wobbling. No attack will be made and no time will pass.
- Transgression will trigger on your basic attack even if you are holding a weapon.

Forest of Blood is gonna remove the nature dam - because poisons - which will let me buff the bleed a little more.
The life-gain, though? I guess when you have 1500hp then 10 regen looks pretty sorry. How much should this be scaling, given in ideal circumstances you can keep that up pretty much constantly? We talking like, 20? 50?
The Unarmed tag on a talent category makes it not work with heavy armor, I think. Not much I can do about that without deep wizardry, but you're right that I should make it explicit. (I wasn't sure they couldn't until you mentioned it). I'll put it in the class description and on Way of the Mountain, and I guess on the first talent of each class category?
I can... gosh. I MIGHT be able to make transgression not work with weapon attacks? I'm... I'm not certain if I want to? If someone really wants to make that adventurer, then fine? They won't get predation, but the entire rest of that category will work fine with weapons or with heavy armor. o.o

proc talents and double-strike are tricky, and I'm not sure if I can do anything about them. The clarity in blood issue I can probably mostly bandaid by having it check that you know the talent you're using. Double-strike, the easiest option is probably just to make it get the same range boost that attack gets from deadly reach. But... how many melee talents can you get on-hit from gloves? If it's one or two I can probably do the same thing with them, but if there are different glove egos doing it to a dozen different melee talents then, gosh. I'm not sure what to do about that...

Thank you both So much for the comments, and I'll take them into account when I start coding an update when it's not 7 40 am and I havent gone to bed yet.


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 3:16 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:40 am
Posts: 711
Patch!

1.0.1
-Meditant Dash, shattering strike, peak condition, predation tooltips improved.
-The "breath" on Venomous Fist now scales with Deadly Reach. Talent icon now has a green droplet cause it looked wrong without one.
-Fixed mindrot prereq, frozen colossus prereq, Hunger prereq...
-Call of the wild tree now uses cun/will prereq too
-Early game peak condition effects duration reduction buff.
-changed Deadly Reach scaling to not be so weird
-Removed nature dam from Forest of Blood - they get it from Poisons - and buffed Bleed damage.
-Halved cold resist from way of the mountain.
-Removed mindpower from meditant soul - they get it from Gloom. (This is gonna be a pattern)
-Removed physpower from Hunger - they're Str primary and get empty hand.
-Hate gain removed from Fractured Blow - they get it from Gloom. How obvious is it that I did all my testing without Gloom and Mucus and Poisons active?
-Wait why did predation have an Equi cost oops
-Swapped the effects of Avalanche and Bramblecrush. (And thus their damage types)
-Then swapped positions of Bramblecrush and Fractured Blow, giving you a lvl 1 stun.
-Fixed a transgression bug resulting in four 50% damage attacks instead of 33% damage attacks.
-EVENTUALLY fixed a tooltip bug in Fractured Blow. (I'd misplaced some ( ) so the result was 1.5 instead of the expected 30-50.)
-Clarified inability to heavy armor/weapons in cat. descriptions and first relevant talent of each new category.
-Reduced Equi costs across the board since willpower is like your fourth, fifth stat priority.
-Clarity in Blood no longer procs on talents you don't know, such as those from glove on-hits.
-Speaking of glove on hits, gloves that proc'd Disarm, Cripple, or Stone Touch were feeling very sad if you were out of range when you used them. We now apply Deadly Reach to these talents. Reproach isnt changed because more range means more targets means less damage, and Dominate isn't changed because it works at range, just not well.
-We get an even worse problem with adventurers with Double Strike, so that gets it too. If I ever fix up celestialoddities, dawn's aura will too.
-All damage you do during transgression, except the attacks themselves, does half damage.
-...after realising that Flexible Combat does 100% damage per hit, I sorrowfully removed its synergy with seven-handed strike. It can now only proc once per talent. Well, it might be able to proc per target on things that hit multiple foes? whatever.
-Fixed cursed aura?
-Nerfed literally every weapon damage function


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