ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Everything about ToME
It is currently Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:31 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:40 pm 
Offline
Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:34 am
Posts: 260
https://te4.org/games/addons/tome/revamped-alchemist

Main features:
  • Alchemist gems are gone. Throw Bomb, Refit Golem, etc. no longer consume ammunition.
  • Alchemy infusions are no longer mutually exclusive. Instead of changing the damage type of the entire alchemist bomb, they add a small amount of extra damage to alchemist bombs, Channel Staff, and melee attacks.
  • Throw Bomb no longer has friendly fire. Alchemist Protection is replaced with a talent that allows you to pick a special effect for your bombs (such as knockback).
  • More talents benefit from mastery
  • A new Staff Techniques tree

This is not intended to bring Alchemist into Madness viability, it's probably still low tier. It's just intended to make it more interesting and less tedious to play (and also fix some bugs). There are some significant buffs, of course, but hopefully not too much (and there are nerfs too).


Last edited by minmay on Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:04 am, edited 3 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:17 am 
Offline
Uruivellas

Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 3:45 pm
Posts: 875
Alchemist was on my to-do list of buffing, so glad someone else got to it first. I might prod DG to review as he did want them buffed in the main game.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:09 am 
Offline
Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:34 am
Posts: 260
One thing this addon hasn't touched (yet) is Smoke Bomb. Vanilla Alchemist could amplify bomb damage by a huge amount by using Fire Infusion+Smoke Bomb, which I thought was pretty silly (and made the other infusions questionable), so I have no urge to reintroduce it. However, now that Smoke Bomb's burn replicating effect is probably harmful rather than helpful, since it prevents the LOS-blocking and the class no longer inflicts large burns, I'm thinking it might be better to get rid of the burn replication altogether. (It behaves really stupidly when more than one monster is already burning anyway...)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:38 am 
Offline
Uruivellas

Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 3:45 pm
Posts: 875
Smoke Bomb really makes more sense as exclusively a control/LoS blocking tool.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:59 am 
Offline
Graphical God

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:05 am
Posts: 417
Location: Snowscape
I have given it a short spin yesterday in the ID and I think it plays really nice and way more fluidly than the normal alchies. Still though, I think that the complete removal of any gem use for attacking is a bit too much. Mind you, this feeling comes mostly from the fact that I'm not seeing my lovely gem bag doll art, so it is not entirely objective, heh. But aside from that, I still think that using gems for augmenting the bombs can be retained, without the silly consumable side of course. Just equipping a certain gem in the quiver slot can give you some more tactical options. Then again, the vanilla gems are in a bad place as well and most probably due for a rework along with the alchemist ;).

On a different note, I really like the new staff tree and the overall cleaned up design of the infusion use. I have always found Smoke Bomb to be a very odd talent that feels completely out of place (personally I have never used it when playing an alchie, but I haven't played them very much anyway).

My two copper coins, that is. Cheers! :)

_________________
~ [ RexOrcorum, a.k.a "rexo": Official Visual Magus, Addon Beautifier, Achiever, Knight of the 561 Trees, Dark Interfacer ] ~
darkgod wrote:
~ [ DarkGod whips rexorcorum with Suslik (& many others as well) ] ~


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:29 pm 
Offline
Wyrmic

Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:55 pm
Posts: 272
Lua error when trying to use Thunderclap on Ureslak.

Code:
error = "Lua Error: /engine/interface/GameTargeting.lua:121: /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:162: /data-revamped-alchemist/talents/spells/altered-talents.lua:517: attempt to index global 'target' (a nil value)\
stack traceback:\
\9/data-revamped-alchemist/talents/spells/altered-talents.lua:517: in function 'damtype'\
\9/engine/interface/ActorProject.lua:218: in function 'project'\
\9/data-revamped-alchemist/talents/spells/altered-talents.lua:507: in function </data-revamped-alchemist/talents/spells/altered-talents.lua:499>\
\9[C]: in function 'xpcall'\
\9/engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:160: in function </engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:149>\
  At [C]:-1 \
  At [C]:-1 error\
  At /engine/interface/GameTargeting.lua:121 fct\
  At /engine/interface/GameTargeting.lua:127 targetMode\
  At /engine/interface/GameTargeting.lua:264 targetMouse\
  At /mod/class/Game.lua:2316 fct\
  At /engine/Mouse.lua:58 receiveMouse\
  At /engine/Mouse.lua:98 delegate\
  At /mod/class/uiset/Minimalist.lua:2052 on_mouse\
  At /engine/LogDisplay.lua:218 mouseEvent\
  At /mod/class/uiset/Minimalist.lua:1701 fct\
  At /engine/Mouse.lua:58 "
seen = true
reported = true


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:06 am 
Offline
Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:34 am
Posts: 260
yeah, that's already fixed in the current version


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:38 pm 
Offline
Wyrmic

Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:55 pm
Posts: 272
minmay wrote:
yeah, that's already fixed in the current version


Cool. For whatever reason none of my addons will auto-update and so I do it manually. Is there a changelog for v1.0.1?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:07 pm 
Offline
Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:34 am
Posts: 260
I don't think auto-update works for anyone :P

The current version is actually 1.0.2 and was uploaded prior to your report, I was just too lazy to edit the OP. The changelog for my addons is always in the init.lua but since the Web page for addons doesn't update the description automatically when you upload a new version (WHY) the description will often be out of date. The only changes so far from 1.0.0 have been bug fixes though.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:53 am 
Offline
Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:43 am
Posts: 6026
Auto update of addons depends on whether you are running to steam or non steam version.
eg. The steam version only updates addons you are subscribed to via the workshop.
Also, problems with the version numbers in the init.lua file can upset the addon auto updating.

_________________
My feedback meter decays into coding. Give me feedback and I make mods.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:17 am 
Offline
Low Yeek

Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:43 am
Posts: 8
Got the following error with the 'Thunderclap fix' version of the addon. This message pops up in the sandworm lair everytime I try to use a talent against the backup guardian Corrupted Sand Wyrm.

Code:
error = "Lua Error: /mod/addons/revamped-alchemist/superload/mod/class/Grid.lua:6: attempt to call upvalue 'base_tooltip' (a nil value)\
  At [C]:-1 base_tooltip\
  At /mod/addons/revamped-alchemist/superload/mod/class/Grid.lua:6 check\
  At /engine/Map.lua:801 checkEntity\
  At /mod/class/Tooltip.lua:36 check\
  At /mod/class/Tooltip.lua:71 getTooltipAtMap\
  At /engine/Tooltip.lua:284 displayAtMap\
  At /engine/interface/GameTargeting.lua:66 targetDisplayTooltip\
  At /mod/class/Game.lua:1752 "
seen = true
reported = true


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:55 pm 
Offline
Wyrmic

Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:55 pm
Posts: 272
Link to my EoR Normal/Adventure winner.

Had quite a bit of fun with your addon; it definitely is a step-up from vanilla Alchemist! I felt pretty powerful all the way through, including the fight with Aeryn, up until the final boss. I don't think I would have won that fight except that after a few deaths something bugged out with the AI targeting and they wouldn't teleport me back into the main chamber like usual. Hence I just kited the boss in the narrow tunnels for maximum bombing and won. I think this bug (which gave about 10 errors each turn) had its source in OotS (which I forgot to disable :oops: ) and not your addon, but here's the log anyway:

Code:
error = "Lua Error: /engine/interface/ActorAI.lua:188: attempt to perform arithmetic on local 'tx' (a nil value)\
  At [C]:-1 __add\
  At /engine/interface/ActorAI.lua:188 aiSeeTargetPos\
  At /engine/interface/ActorAI.lua:140 base_getTarget\
  At ...anthropy_summoner/superload/engine/interface/ActorAI.lua:20 getTarget\
  At /data-orcs/zones/slumbering-caves/npcs.lua:90 on_act\
  At /mod/addons/improved-restauto/superload/mod/class/Actor.lua:137 act\
  At /mod/class/NPC.lua:68 act\
  At /engine/GameEnergyBased.lua:129 tickLevel\
  At /engine/GameEnergyBased.lua:64 tick\
  At /engine/GameTurnBased.lua:51 tick\
  At /mod/class/Game.lua:1386 "
seen = true
reported = true


Here's some detailed feedback about the addon:
  • Infusion changes - I really like how they're not mutually exclusive now, but taking away the damage bonuses is a major nerf. I see no reason to invest any more than 1 point in each Infusion talent for that reason.
  • Pyrotechnics - I don't think the knockback effect was working for me. In any case, daze seems a vast superior choice over both alternatives.
  • Elixer - This is borderline overpowered. With healmod I was landing 900+ healing on a 4-turn cooldown. And the mana meant I never, ever had to worry about running low.
  • Bombs - Too bad they're always physical now: takes away some of the variety. The shorter range took some getting used to and I seriously considered the Range Amplification Device prodigy because of it. I vaguely feel like they do less damage than before, but have no evidence of this.
  • Staff Techniques - I feel like, with the exception of the last talent (Half-staff), this tree doesn't fit Alchemist well at all. Why in the world would you want to be in melee range and use staff attacks? Channel staff is better damage, never misses, is now a beam, is essentially free, and has no cooldown. The third talent (High Guard) is nice enough but would require serious staff-type juggling and doesn't seem to scale well with points.
  • Golem - I know your addon didn't change anything about Golem, but anything claiming to be an "Alchemist Rework" might want to do so. The problems with Golem are pretty obvious and I'm sure there've been some good ideas tossed around these forums.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:28 pm 
Offline
Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:34 am
Posts: 260
tabs wrote:
Pyrotechnics - I don't think the knockback effect was working for me. In any case, daze seems a vast superior choice over both alternatives.
The knockback is from the center of the bomb, so if you drop a bomb directly on top of a monster it's not going to knock it back. I should probably specify that in the description...
tabs wrote:
Elixer - This is borderline overpowered. With healmod I was landing 900+ healing on a 4-turn cooldown. And the mana meant I never, ever had to worry about running low.
This talent was added because of life regen and mana regain alchemist gems (which could be used with multiple talents) but yeah, it's too good right now.
tabs wrote:
Bombs - Too bad they're always physical now: takes away some of the variety. The shorter range took some getting used to and I seriously considered the Range Amplification Device prodigy because of it. I vaguely feel like they do less damage than before, but have no evidence of this.
It was necessary to change the bomb damage formula because the vanilla one uses both your spellpower and a hidden number depending on the gem tier used, and then there were also the gems with explicit +x% bomb damage bonuses. The new one is worse at low spellpower but significantly better at high spellpower, with the intent of smoothing out Alchemist's power curve a bit.
tabs wrote:
Golem - I know your addon didn't change anything about Golem, but anything claiming to be an "Alchemist Rework" might want to do so. The problems with Golem are pretty obvious and I'm sure there've been some good ideas tossed around these forums.
This is true. To be honest, I wrote off the golem as a lost cause for now.

Thanks!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:05 am 
Offline
Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:34 am
Posts: 260
1.0.3 is uploaded. The tooltip bug is fixed (as far as I can tell) and Elixir no longer depends on max life/mana, to make it consistent with 1.6 changes to similar talents.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:18 am 
Offline
Low Yeek

Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:43 am
Posts: 8
Thank you for this addon! It really made the worst class in the game much better. Here is the link to my Insane/Adventure Yeek Alchemist winner's character sheet:
https://te4.org/characters/142070/tome/36c97c03-080b-4b87-b128-b8dd925972b3

I died 5 times: twice in the early/middle game, once in High Peak and twice in the final boss fight. Here are my remarks below.

  • Now that infusions are no longer exclusive and the base damage is now physical, the character build for the final fight is a lot easier by going for +phys dmg +phys penetration.
  • The tedious alchemist gem management is gone, maybe a little bit more money can be saved. I could buy artifacts for 36k gold at the merchant.
  • Ice core might have saved my life dozens of times, with high DEX and gear I could reach 100% crit shrug off.
  • I have different experiences with Pyrotechnics than tabs did, knockback fuel combined with Track, Vision, Zig-Zag tunnels did wonders. Corner bomb the enemy, knockback by 3 tiles, by the time he comes back, Throw Bomb is off the cooldown. I killed more than a hundred rares/uniques/bosses this way. This is great in High Peak to knock the guardians off the stairs, too, because I didn't dare to directly fight any of them.
  • I played with the 1.0.2. version of Elixir, this is a real game changer, you no longer need regen/manasurge, it seems reasonable to nerf it a bit as it was done in 1.0.3.
  • Golems are still useless things, had to dismiss him to go safely through High Peak alone. He got me killed in High Peak lv1. It would be great to add an extra button to kill him instantly as he can aggro whole levels by chasing shadows or teleporting enemies. (The self-destruction works only if I am dead)
  • I feel that the new Staff Techniques tree is great if you find Bolbum's Big Knocker, otherwise maybe a tier 5 merchant randart could work, too. I don't know whether a tier 5 staff with +40% phys dmg would have been better. The ~95% of my offensive talent usage were Throw bomb and Channel Staff.
  • The final fight on Insane is no joke. With the extra lives of Adventure mode you can kill Elandar by heavily focused dmg (do not care about defenses, just go with high +phys dmg/penetration), then die, then close the portals and die, then kill Argoniel in 1v1. The disengage-like Pole Vault is great in the last 1v1 battle.

All in all, the class is much more fun to play, but still needs very careful planning with the fights if you want to avoid unnecessary deaths. I still can't imagine this class winning ever on Madness.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group