ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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 Post subject: Re: White Monk v 1.6.8
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:17 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:45 pm
Posts: 896
Location: Middle of Nowhere
v1.6.7
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ToME 1.6 compatibility (updated mastery description for Guided Hand)

...

v1.6.8
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(actually updated mastery description for Guided Hand :facepalm: )


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 Post subject: Re: White Monk v 1.6.9
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:44 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:45 pm
Posts: 896
Location: Middle of Nowhere
V1.6.9
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[Guided Hand]
No longer allows you to equip gauntlets in place of Heavy Armor Training.
White Monks now start with a point assigned to Armour Training rather than Heightened Senses. The way item requirements are handled has changed a fair bit and I wasn't able to work out a new method to handle this in a reasonable amount of time. Might get back to it someday, but for now you can use either hand gear without having to spend a point yourself (plus nearly everyone is going to want HAT anyway, just for the boots and helms).

[Swift Strike]
Removed the pin after use. I still dislike that the mobility this provides encourages saving it to escape with, but the cooldown is short enough that if someone doesn't want to use it to engage or during combat just to ensure it won't be on cooldown, that's their option. The pin is pretty negligible with the ranged attacks available, but hitting yourself with a debuff just feels bad.


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 Post subject: Re: White Monk v 1.6.10
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:58 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:45 pm
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Location: Middle of Nowhere
v1.6.10
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[General]
Adjusted talent mastery levels to be in line with 1.6 conventions (either 1.3 or 1.0)
Bumped Tactical to1.3, lowered Survival to 1.0.

Meant to do this along with another update, but I forgot. Whoops.


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 Post subject: Re: White Monk v 1.6.10
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:16 am 
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Posts: 4
I think there is a bug for White Monk, could be other add ons, but this on looks like it is a White Monk add on when I faced a White Monk enemy type.
I saw this error when playing both Hiveminder and Sea Knight.

Attachment:
WhiteMonkError.jpg
WhiteMonkError.jpg [ 204.96 KiB | Viewed 295 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: White Monk v 1.6.10
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:19 am 
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Posts: 4
I think I am seeing an error when facing White Monk enemies.

Attachment:
WhiteMonkError.jpg
WhiteMonkError.jpg [ 204.96 KiB | Viewed 295 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: White Monk v 1.6.10
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:18 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:45 pm
Posts: 896
Location: Middle of Nowhere
Just looking at the stack traceback, it looks like the paladin tweaks addon is doing some funky superloading of onTakeHit which could be causing the issue. I'll take a look at it when I have time, though, maybe later today. Haven't updated this in a while and haven't had any other reports. That set effect thing is something I've seen pop with at least one other add-on in conjunction with Hiveminder, so that may be a conflict, as well.

Thanks for the report :)


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 Post subject: Re: White Monk v 1.6.10
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:50 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:45 pm
Posts: 896
Location: Middle of Nowhere
Ok, I cannot reproduce this without Hiveminder also enabled. With Hiveminder enabled, it seems to cause an issue with any effect from White Monk. It's odd that Hiveminder doesn't show up in the traceback at all, but I'm fairly confident it is some kind of conflict.


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 Post subject: Re: White Monk v 1.6.10
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:08 am
Posts: 4
Seems like I double posted, because I thought the first one didn't go through.
I think you are probably right, since when I was playing it before, it wasn't bugging out.

EDIT: For reference. When playing Oozemancer, I do not face this issue when facing White Monk enemies.


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 Post subject: Re: White Monk v 1.6.10
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:22 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:45 pm
Posts: 896
Location: Middle of Nowhere
I was able to confirm this is a bug in Hiveminder. Why it causes this error, I have no idea, but the fix is simple and I think it's likely the author of Hiveminder will have an update soon with the fix included. I was talking with them in the Discord while rooting out the bug and explained how it can be fixed.


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 Post subject: Re: White Monk v 1.6.10
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:17 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:28 am
Posts: 46
nsrr wrote:
I was able to confirm this is a bug in Hiveminder. Why it causes this error, I have no idea, but the fix is simple and I think it's likely the author of Hiveminder will have an update soon with the fix included. I was talking with them in the Discord while rooting out the bug and explained how it can be fixed.


I'll probably be on it within the next hour or so; I just got home from work so I'm sitting for a bit. Thanks a bunch for going to the lengths that you did! :D

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 Post subject: Re: White Monk v 1.6.10
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:35 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:45 pm
Posts: 896
Location: Middle of Nowhere
No problem. It piqued my curiosity. I get a kick out of squashing bugs anyway :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: White Monk v 1.7.0
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:42 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:28 am
Posts: 46
OK, that should (god willing) be the fix. Thanks again for your help!

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 Post subject: Re: White Monk v 1.7.0
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:49 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:43 pm
Posts: 219
So, one win later, I can say that this class is definitely viable on Insane.
Character: https://te4.org/characters/199593/tome/e2ec053b-51e8-4238-acea-f04095c21fc7
I won with Aeryn alive, took down Atamathon and the Hypostasis.

The early game can be a bit tough, but is doable. The problem here is that Aura of Protection can run you out of stamina if you're not careful.
Once you get Antimagic Shield up to a decent level, a lot of your defensive problems vanish.
After that (around Dreadfell), most of the game was a breeze. Apart from Vor Armory, the only major problems were a duo of bone giant uniques in High Peak 1 and Atamathon (I actually couldn't kill the former.)
The sorcerers especially were complete pushovers.
Vor Armory was a big roadblock for me due to a lack of accuracy. If I didn't have a Perfect Strike pickaxe, I might have lost there. But with that boost to accuracy, I was even able to clear the Room of Death on my first visit there.


Thoughts on gear and talent choices:
Antimagic
Antimagic covers your defensive needs nicely. You are already investing heavily into willpower, since your attacks scale with it, and you don't use equilibrium otherwise.
Mana Clash (for sustain removal) is not needed, and I never put a point into it, but that was not due to your sustain removal being covered by Holy Sign, but due to gear choices (see below).
Antimagic Shield broke very rarely, pretty much only against Atamathon (he was the only big boss that actually damaged me by any significant margin.)
The other big benefit (apart from Antimagic Shield) is the stamina restoration from Resolve. Gaining 1 stamina every time you take non-physical, non-mind damage means Aura of Protection is less resource intensive.

Spellhunt Remnants
There are definitely a lot of gloves with higher damage and better on hits, but Spellhunts offer a nice amount of damage against any caster (and somewhat decent damage against non-mages.)
The big benefit here is that the Antimagic Zone proc keeps your equilibrium very low and casters suppressed while Mana Clash removes any magical sustains (due to the post-Urkis upgrade.)
I like the benefits enough to put up with the lower damage, but you can definitely roll with other gloves. The sustain removal also helps with stripping resistance penetration sustains that might hurt you during Transcend.

Ring of the War Master
Since 1.6 (I believe that was when it was changed), this ring has turned into an amazing item for this class. The Ring of the War Master now gives +0.3 mastery to every 'technique/~' talent category - in other words, every single White Monk category.

Other gear
Just get good physical power, defense, optionally armor.
For offense, if you're not a halfling, physcrit is important, since the class scales well with criticals due to Measured Blows.
A helmet that has the +stamina when hit ego helps with any problems with Aura of Protection or might even eliminate them outright (I got a +3 stamina when hit helmet from the merchant.)

Prodigies
Flexible Combat is the clear #1 choice imo. You are a class that fights with unarmed attacks, getting 50% more attacks is just perfect.
Adept helps hitting a few nice breakpoints. It's not critical, but nice. Breakpoints: 7 turns of Transcend, 6 turns of Pummel (iirc), one additional tile of Swift Strike range. It also helps with the Aura of Protection stamina drain.
If you have Ring of the War Master, you hit those breakpoints anyway, so you might swap Adept for something else if you have the ring by level 42.

Infusions
A group of Wild (physical), Movement and Regeneration take care of stuns, faraway enemies and health problems that get through Antimagic Shield and Aura of Protection.
My last two choices were Primal and Wild Growth. Both of these were for additional survivability during Transcend.
The former stacks up nicely with the 50+% resistance to everything, making some attacks do no damage or even heal you, and the latter gives a good chunk of additional armor and stops enemies from getting into melee with you during your 7 turns of inability to act.

Cunning/Tactical (locked)
I picked this category at 10 for the counterattack, since it works nicely with Pummel and I had very high defense at that point.
Exploit Weakness is essential lategame to shred through enemies with high resistances.

Technique/Transcending (locked)
I picked this at level 34, and I'm unsure whether I should have taken it earlier. Transcend makes fights a breeze, but if you don't have the required defenses, you might just die.
But when you are able to stack your defenses up, guarantee crits and have Pummel up, Transcend turns into a room-clearing monster.
This is your high risk, high reward skill, but too strong in my opinion. I was able to take off 98% of Elandar's health in one Transcend, and kill the Hypostasis of Entropy in four of them (and some punches.)
Transcend was the only important skill in the tree for me, surplus points went into Energy Osmosis later on for the global speed.

Technique/Martial Arts
Your core damage category. Notably, every point spent in here gives you flat damage reduction against everything, which helps with the earlygame and whatever gets through Antimagic Shield lategame.
Every talent but Spin Fist is critical to White Monk in my opinion, and even Spin Fist is very good. You should probably max everything here.

Technique/Agile Combatant
Swift Strike is what you want from this. It gives you a dash that targets an empty tile and damages enemies in the way.
The rest of the category is nice, but unnecessary in my opinion.

Technique/Mending
Lifefont is a valuable heal early on, but falls off hard.
Chakra is a nice clear and heal (and it is nice that it happens in that order, because this way it can clear iceblocks and then heal you), but takes a turn.
Revive is a safety net skill. Get a point or two in it, then have it on all the time. If Revive gets triggered and the enemy is not killable in two or three hits, run.
Holy Sign removes magical sustains and effects. Nice if you aren't antimagic, a one-pointer to help with Urkis if you are.

Technique/Rending
In hindsight, I should have invested in this earlier. I didn't play much with Air Render.
Earth Render helps with high armor enemies, as long as you can get Enervate stacked up on them (Exhaust from Transcending is very helpful here.)
I didn't use Aura Blast much at all.
Far Fist is amazing when combined with Pummel, and was my goto damage skill when I didn't have Transcend yet or when it was on cooldown. 4 points makes it radius 2.

Technique/Fending
Aura of Protection is your core defense and a two-edged sword. Lategame, it makes you nigh invincible when combined with Antimagic (up to 40% damage gets absorbed at nearly no cost if you have a +stamina when hit helmet.)
Earlygame, having it on might kill you faster than having it off. Estimating whether you should leave it on is fairly difficult in my opinion (although I'm just bad at that, so who knows.)
One point in Warded Mind early on blocks one confusion effect per fight, which is very useful. More investment reduces the cooldown drastically, to the point where it might as well be the Unbreakable Will prodigy.

Conclusion
I like this class. It offers some of that classic DnD monk feeling - a mobile, lightly armored brawler.
Transcend might be way too strong, as might the fact that halfling gets a lot more Measured Blows triggers - it is probably the optimal race for this class.
It feels strong, but not too strong, as some unique combinations can still outright kill you - watch out for Cursed + Rogue uniques, those are very lethal.


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 Post subject: Re: White Monk v 1.7.0
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:34 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:45 pm
Posts: 896
Location: Middle of Nowhere
Congrats on the win and thanks for the detailed feedback! :D


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