ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:34 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:40 am
Posts: 703
It also stops ninjas from catching you.

(Good to have you back!)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:53 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
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Location: Ambush!
astralInferno wrote:
It also stops ninjas from catching you.
Exactly!

astralInferno wrote:
(Good to have you back!)
Who knows, this time I may finish things.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:15 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
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Location: Ambush!
Updated for the Gravitic Infantry (formerly known as the Heavy).

Their low-level tree and high-level tree both got some updates.

Notably:
- Implacable Force gives you a time shield when you use the Block talent, or buffs your existing time shield.
- Gravity Shunt is a low-CD, short range tactical teleport which stuns jerks you bamf through.
- Reversion Cache works again (so far as I can tell), but deliberately ignores Heroism infusion effects because they don't seem to copy forward correctly.

Please kick the tires and report errors.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:51 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
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Minor update: one timed_effect got removed by accident, so I put it back.

If you're playing a Flenser, you want this update.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:24 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
Posts: 2397
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Replies to some comments on the te.4/tome/addons section (https://te4.org/games/addons/tome/nullpack):

smithfield wrote:
I'm late to the party, but I really like everything you've done.

Your gem pack was the first addon which I tried and it was so good it encouraged further exploration.

I'd tried this pack recently only to find it broken under 1.5.10 and suddenly this update.

Thank you so much for your continued time and attention.

Tammy the Creep says 'hi'. She's gone to the Bank of Norgos to get her money before going shopping.

Glad you're enjoying, and thanks for the feedback.

Gems also got an update recently -- now the Sentient Crystal can auto-explore, and the inventory layout is cleaner.

The Wolf Sky wrote:
Fossil starts with arcane combat, which I like, but it doesn't start with anything to proc it off of, making it a mostly useless skill to take until you get something you can use it with. I really feel it needs fixing, or I am somehow using an outdated version
Yeah, I'd been hoping to write a new tree for Fossil to replace Stone, or modify access to Earthen Missiles so you didn't have to wait for Stone... but overall it's a mess, and better suited to AB or Adventurer.

If I do modify spells or write a few new trees, then I'll bring Fossil back. For now it's going to be disabled, since it wasn't much more than what an Adventurer could do, and the new Prototype Hero subtype of Adventurer even gives you the same Mastery levels.

KingInYellowTatters wrote:
I really like the idea of a class catering to a skeleton's strengths, and I also like the idea of more unarmed specialist class variants. I do have a few suggestions though.

- Fossils, like base brawlers, start off with a point allocated to Armour Training that you just can't remove. For some physical classes, like Bulwarks, having points in this talent makes perfect sense. But here, just as with brawlers, it kind of bothers me, since both fossils and brawlers have access to the Technique/Mobility category, and could theoretically use the Mobile Defense talent to buff the defense of even light armor which they could wear basically. Combined with other defensive talents, such as evasion, the defenses of a brawler-type should be adequate for survival without needing to invest in Armour Training at all. So, in short, I think the starting point there should be placed into a less-permanent category so the player could reallocate it if they really wished. Combat Accuracy would be a decent choice.

- Pugilism is a fine category for this concept, but just like with base brawlers, it means that fossils earn combo points as a result of their maneuvers. Unlike brawlers, however, fossils simply do not have a set of finishing moves currently to actually DO anything with the combo points they collect. They just sit there uselessly on the side of the screen. Fossils could thus really benefit from a category unique to their own class containing their own personal finisher options. Furthermore, i suggest that this new talent category replace the existing Spell/Stone category on the list. Don't get me wrong. I actually approve of the earth association idea of the concept, but the "magic" they throw offensively at enemies should be more akin to Street Fighter-style Ki powers rather than mage-style casting. Thus, I think that the Stone spells should be slotted out, and the new finishing move category should have a stone-element flair in it's place. That way it both fulfills the geomantic magic theme and also acts as a sink for the combo points. Ironically, I think the Spell/Earth category that is also in the list is MUCH more generally useful and works fine as-is.

- Speaking of spells, the Spell/Temporal category doesn't really fit in as well with the elemental thematic and you can get most of the utilities it grants that would be useful for this class more easily through investing in other talents such as Combat Techniques. It just doesn't really seem worthwhile to go out of your way to get. Also, Technique/Magical Combat doesn't seem too bad at first blush, but it seems a little unnecessary with all of the other offensive melee options the class has. I have a recommendation for these as well: Replace these two categories with Stone Alchemy and Explosive Admixtures. This will once again play into the idea of the Earth/stone aesthetic (as well as the idea of manipulating a more raw and simplistic version of magic better for blending with fighting techniques), give the class the ability to augment their equipment with gems (though the Stone Touch talent is a nice potential combat option too)), and add a little bit more ranged and mass combat utility via the alchemical bombs, giving the fossils a few more tactical options. The one potential problem with that idea is that Stone Alchemy is a generic talent, and thus cuts into generic talent points. However, I think it balances out a bit due to 2 factors - 1. Unlike a full-on alchmist, the fossils will be able to make do with a lesser number of gems on-hand, due to their superior defenses and personal combat options, thus requiring less overall investment in Stone Alchemy's utilitarian talents. /2. I don't see the existing Combat Training category eating up a lot of talent points in its own right either. this class should be able to get by primarily via it's unarmed combat techniques and spell-like talents, rather than relying on other forms of weaponry. Most of the actual utility that can b drawn from Combat Training for this class comes in the form of, primarily, the Combat Accuracy talent, and to a lesser extent the armor and damage mitigation of Thick Skin though one could certainly take or leave those due to all of the other defensive talent options the class has access to. It may work out in practice or not, but I think it's an option at least worth experimenting with.

Anyhoo, once again. I still think it's a really cool base concept. I just think a few tweaks like these can make it all the better is all. Just my thoughts on the matter. Thank you. :)

Edit: Ooh! Ooh! Perhaps, if and when you design the unique finisher tree, perhaps one of the talents can actually produce Alchemist Gems for use in conjunction with Explosive Admixtures. Handling it like this would alleviate the need for including Stone Alchemy at all, and thus sidestep the concerns I mentioned earlier about having too many generic talent categories to worry about investing in.
Regarding the point in Heavy Armor Training: that's necessary for wearing metal gloves (gauntlets), which every unarmed character needs. It's a flaw in the system IMHO, but it's absolutely necessary at the present.

You're right about basically all your other criticism of the Fossil, and I've removed it from the available character list. (Not because of you or what you wrote, but just because the class wasn't providing enough value over what you could do with Adventurer and/or Prototype Hero.)

If I do re-write it -- which I'd like to do eventually -- your idea about using Stone Alchemy is good, but probably not with Explosive Admixtures. I'd want to write a new tree for alchemist gem ammo expenditure.

Anyway, thanks for your very thoughtful feedback.

mudkipz wrote:
i am a very great fan of blood mages,and i suspect you implented them because of me (ab)using the flenser class as such :P.i really appreciate that you implented it,but i have to say,i personally still would prefer flenser over blood mage.the reason is that i envision a blood mage using blood and bones,not acid and vitriol.also,many of the new talents seemed to be melee oriented.as a mage i am trying my best to stay out of melee :O!!
well,i just wanted to thank you and also write some,hopefully, constructive critic.!

Hey, there's nothing wrong with abusing Flenser.

In fact the Flenser was probably trained by abusive demons in the first place -- which is why their new tree Desecration is all about getting positive benefits from detrimental effects.

The reason I made Blood Mage was because I wanted a variant of Corruptor which didn't need to spam Drain, since I consider Drain to be poor resource management. Permanent Bloodcasting seems a lot more elegant, and then the Vim pool becomes a nice-to-have buffer instead of an annoying resource.

Glad you liked Flenser, hopefully the updated version is still enjoyable -- and thanks for the feedback!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:05 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
Posts: 2397
Location: Ambush!
Small update: Adventurer / Steam Heroes didn't have the merge flag set, so weren't getting steamtech drops (like schematics).

Now they do.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:57 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:03 am
Posts: 23
Hey, I got this addon and a recent update seems to have borked it whenever I load a save with it active or trying to start a new char with it active. I keep getting this error whenever I do either:
Quote:
Lua Error: /engineBirther.lua57:/data-nullpack/birth/classes/adventurer.lua191:module'mod.clas.OrcCampaign' not found:no field package.preload{'mod.classOrcCampaign']
no file'mod/class/OrcCampaign.lua'
At[C]:-1
At[C]C-1 error
At /engine/Birther.lua57 loadDefinition
At /hooks/nullpack/load.lua36
At [string"return function(I, self, data) local ok=false..."]: 1 triggerHook
At /mod/load.lua:265
At [C]:-1 require
At /engine/Module.lua:160 load
At /engine/Module.lua:1030 instanciate
At /engine/utils.lua:2284 showMainMenu
At /engine/init.lua199
At [C]:-1 dofile
At /loader/init.lua:217

I don't have the Orc Campaign DLC; is that's what's causing this? I hate to have to turn this addon off because I like the classes you get with it, but I have to do that in order to get my game to run or load a save. :(

Granted, I have a lot of addons active. Here's my list:
Eternal Darkness
Ignore Race/Class Locks
Schrodinger's Lore
Deathknight
ZOmnibus Addon Pack
Hedgeknight Class
Necromancy+
Playable Mummy Race
Odyssey of The Summoner
New Gem Types
Mountain Troll Race
Mage Knight
Abomination Race
magebow class v18 (sic)
Half-Finished Bone Giant Nerf
Undead Heritage
Troll Race.
Viper Class
Verdant Class Pack
Possessed Class Add on
Tempis Fugit
Shaman
Steel Drakes
Archreaver
Midnight
All Spells Tree Unlock
Ghouls Dont Breathe (sic)
Extra Dungeons
Dremling Horror Race
Dread Knight Class
Arcanum Class Pack
Faerie Race
F*** Patrols Addon
Blighted Class
Guaranteed Zones
Gnome
Lunar Cultist
Ghost Race
Acid Trees for Archmage
astralInferno's Celestial Oddities
Class: Astromancer
Inferno Race Pack
Tweaked Arcane Aether
The Burning Coals
Playable Wight Race
Dark Priest
Orcnac Subrace
Playable Naloren Race
White Monk
Vor'tep
Prowler Class
Sholtar
High Guard
Stoneshaper
Dreamelf
Bladebender
Zephyr
Crystalist
Air Archer
Diversity Mod

Is it possible one of these is screwing around with the coding for this addon?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:29 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
Posts: 2397
Location: Ambush!
Probably my fault.

I tried to wrap all the Orc stuff in if-blocks, but maybe I missed one.

Let me try disabling Orcs and see if it works (that did work when I tested it before, so ... uh, hope that I can reproduce this).

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:42 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
Posts: 2397
Location: Ambush!
Yep, it was my fault.

I was able to reproduce the error, and I've just uploaded a fix to te4 and Steam.

Thanks for the report! Let me know if it works for you now. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:52 am 
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Wayist

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:03 am
Posts: 23
Yep, that fixed it. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:57 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
Posts: 2397
Location: Ambush!
Lilith Dragmire wrote:
Yep, that fixed it. :)

Yay!

Thanks for testing. Hope the classes are fun.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:41 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:03 am
Posts: 23
Oh, yeah. They're really fun. Especially Creep.

Thanks to some finagling, I was able to get the DLC, but it seems that the ProtoHero doesn't get access to the Psionic/Possession tree. Which leads to me having to use vanilla adventurer instead of my preferred Prototype Hero. Could this be fixed?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:57 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
Posts: 2397
Location: Ambush!
Lilith Dragmire wrote:
Could this be fixed?

Hmm, it might be something to do with loading order between Nullpack and the Possessor.

Maybe I can work out a fix... gonna poke a bit.

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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 5:04 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
Posts: 2397
Location: Ambush!
Lilith Dragmire wrote:
Oh, yeah. They're really fun. Especially Creep.

Thanks to some finagling, I was able to get the DLC, but it seems that the ProtoHero doesn't get access to the Psionic/Possession tree. Which leads to me having to use vanilla adventurer instead of my preferred Prototype Hero. Could this be fixed?

I don't see Psi / Possession tree under the regular Adventurer when I remove all other addons (except Possessor, which I do see).

My guess is that the Possessor talents are normally excluded from Adventurer, perhaps for a good reason?


Do you see Possessor talents under Adventurer due to a different addon? If so, that might be the right place to add something like the Proto Hero -- and it would behave as you'd like.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:44 pm 
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Low Yeek

Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:37 pm
Posts: 9
Ey, been having fun with these things so far. Played Transcendent Fist and Vector.

Couple bits about 'em to mention.

Trascendent Fist probably needs Technique/Combat Veteran. Stamina was a real pain the manage and getting regen for it was a matter of drops, rather than the class.

Vector's cool, but this one has a couple things I have concerns about. First being that their blight/disease chance on the sustain works on a talent basis rather than as an on-hit modifier for ranged weapons, so it isn't applying to certain things. Like Volley, though I can see why that may be intended... Volley -> Catalepsy. The second bit about vector is their spotter. He's in the way more than anything. An anti-friendly fire ability tacked in somewhere either globally ('all friendly') or just for your spotter would make him less of a meat shield for the enemy.

Beyond that? Cool shit so far.


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