ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:27 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
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Location: Ambush!
Doctornull wrote:
I'll write out what the different damage types mean in v3.
I am a terrible person and I didn't yet do this. I'm still quibbling about some of the damage types (like SHOULD physical damage get a Gravity burst which has a chance to pin? I dunno -- it seems to me that the main Physical staff, the Big Knocker, doesn't really need any buffs).

---

In related news, v3 is released! It has a re-worked Striker talent tree and the class is now very different from an Archmage. IMHO it's both challenging and fun.

Please do let me know if you figure out how to break it! ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:15 am 
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Wayist

Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:55 pm
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Doctornull wrote:
SHOULD physical damage get a Gravity burst which has a chance to pin? I dunno -- it seems to me that the main Physical staff, the Big Knocker, doesn't really need any buffs.


Well the big knocker is half as powerful as top 2h-weapons.

About reckless strike.
I think it have too low CD (6, the lowest of all of the ascetics spells) and too high mana cost.
This makes spell good for packs of trash but mostly unusable for long boss battles (and they are looong unless RNG lets you have the big knocker).
Stun and pin might be too OP with low CD too.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:24 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

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I based the cost for Reckless Invocation around the Whirlwind talent, which it should resemble in power... but maybe I misjudged the power level? Maybe it should be beefed up or less expensive?

Thanks!

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:59 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:55 pm
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Doctornull wrote:
I based the cost for Reckless Invocation around the Whirlwind talent, which it should resemble in power... but maybe I misjudged the power level? Maybe it should be beefed up or less expensive?

Thanks!

You cant compare a stamina cost of a battle-hardened warrior and the mana cost on sustain-based half-mage. Ascetic gets really tight on mana with all the sustains, especially essence of speed, you end up with ~100 mana for tactical purposes. Barely enough to cast Reckless Invocation 3 times.

I suggest you to lower the mana cost, increase the cooldown (2x or even 3x. You can't invoke recklessly every 6 turns) and make it do % damage instead of flat to insure good scaling lategame. It's a 4 grade spell in a locked tree. It is bound to be powerful.

Sorry for telling you what to do. Those are just some of my thoughts.
Actually, I think the chain lightning instead of the burst would be epic and very useful xD. That is probably too much to ask. xD

Anyway. The ascetic with the new tree is much more fun to play

PS My ascetic died at lvl 31 due to rare chronomancer and me being stupidly careless. Never play till 6am. I'll do another one maybe after some updates. RIP


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:13 am 
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Higher

Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 11:51 pm
Posts: 52
So, after playing through a few of the classes you've added, they all seem to have a good feel going and I totally dig the new tree for Striker.

On that note, maybe for a tree on the Vector ... how about the first talent is some kind of plague arrow that if it kills the target makes it a plague zombie. The zombie would lose life over time, but spread disease either on hit or over time to things adjacent ... then more passives could change how the zombie acts (i.e. explodes in disease when it dies, it's kills make more zombies, things like that).

I'd probably replace the disease tree with that, and maybe drop one of the bow trees, or come up with another unique tree playing off the spell/bow aspect of the class.


Anyways, just some thoughts, great job so far!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:49 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
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Avernite wrote:
You cant compare a stamina cost of a battle-hardened warrior and the mana cost on sustain-based half-mage. Ascetic gets really tight on mana with all the sustains, especially essence of speed, you end up with ~100 mana for tactical purposes. Barely enough to cast Reckless Invocation 3 times.

I suggest you to lower the mana cost, increase the cooldown (2x or even 3x. You can't invoke recklessly every 6 turns) and make it do % damage instead of flat to insure good scaling lategame. It's a 4 grade spell in a locked tree. It is bound to be powerful.
First off: you're right. Thank you! I'm going to revise Reckless Invocation.

HOWEVER: Essence of Speed will still hurt. ;) It's powerful, and it's tying up a ton of your resources for the very good reason that it's giving you a great benefit.

Avernite wrote:
Anyway. The ascetic with the new tree is much more fun to play

PS My ascetic died at lvl 31 due to rare chronomancer and me being stupidly careless. Never play till 6am. I'll do another one maybe after some updates. RIP
RIP brave soul.

Thanks for the feedback, and I'm very glad you enjoyed playing the class!


Elroniel wrote:
So, after playing through a few of the classes you've added, they all seem to have a good feel going and I totally dig the new tree for Striker.

On that note, maybe for a tree on the Vector ...
Thanks!

Regarding the Vector, he's currently incredibly boring. I've started coding a new tree for him, which gives damage adders, debuffs, Vim and Stamina regen, and some minor demon summoning.

He ought to play very unlike an Archer or Rogue -- he's neither stealthy nor particularly mobile, but will be slowing his enemies often enough that he should be able to survive pretty well, and his Hexes also offer some good (albeit expensive) crowd control.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:27 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:18 am
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Location: Angolwen
Keep disease though, I love me some instant spells


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:14 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

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Sradac wrote:
Keep disease though, I love me some instant spells
Oh yes.

"Vector" refers to the class being a vector for disease, as well as the whole vectors-look-like-arrows thing.

Actually, the main inspiration for the class is the Corpsebow artifact... I wanted SOMEONE in the game to be able to use it, just 'cause it looks cool.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:23 am 
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Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:43 am
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I've used it as an Archer, it is cool.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:51 pm 
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Graphical God

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:05 am
Posts: 415
Location: Snowscape
Just running my third turtle striker and this one looks like he'll make it (for longer, at least ;)). Just want to ask if the Lightning Leap is intentionally flagged as a teleporting spell? I was clearing a vault and was perplexed for a couple of turns why it fizzles, before it dawned to me what was the case. The description says "thunderbolt movement", not "light speed" :)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:43 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
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rexorcorum wrote:
Just running my third turtle striker and this one looks like he'll make it (for longer, at least ;)). Just want to ask if the Lightning Leap is intentionally flagged as a teleporting spell? I was clearing a vault and was perplexed for a couple of turns why it fizzles, before it dawned to me what was the case. The description says "thunderbolt movement", not "light speed" :)
Well... it was intentional, because I didn't want to make an over-powered talent, but after getting feedback (and some testing) it seems that having "free" (non-teleport) location choice isn't over-powered, so that's what you'll see in the next release.

What do you think of the other spells? Do you get much use from them?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:09 pm 
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Graphical God

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:05 am
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Location: Snowscape
I went pure Thunderstrike / Phantasm / Staff Combat with Illuminate and Lightning Leap as my two main skills and Channel Staff for a filler inbetween. Took the point in shadow combat out, because all my previous attempt died due to stamina insufficiency and besides I don't use almost any bump-attacks. Just unlocked Storm at lvl10 and we'll see how will it roll out :). All in all - great fun, and there is the Shadow path as a different build.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:53 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
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Nullpack v4 released. I put the notes on the major changes in the first post.

All classes are now playable!

@Avernite - I haven't changed Reckless Invocation yet, it's up next now that all the classes have their first vital custom trees written and working.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:18 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:29 am
Posts: 703
Location: Turtlemire
Upon using Dark Torrent on an enemy, and than attacking them (With Gestures), the game would pop this error, and no turn would pass.
This essentially means I could hit as many times in a single turn as I wished, without them doing anything about it.
I imagine the reverse would be true, for a creep rare.

EDIT: It actually had nothing to do with Dark Torrent, but is instead the Dismayed debuff. After some testing, it happened 100% of the time against an enemy with said debuff.

Code:
stack traceback:
   [C]: in function 'error'
   /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:151: in function </engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:134>
Lua Error: /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:173: /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:151: /data/talents/cursed/gestures.lua:101: attempt to index local 'damage' (a number value)
stack traceback:
   /data/talents/cursed/gestures.lua:101: in function 'attack'
   /mod/class/interface/Combat.lua:144: in function 'attackTarget'
   /data/talents/misc/misc.lua:71: in function </data/talents/misc/misc.lua:51>
   [C]: in function 'xpcall'
   /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:146: in function </engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:134>
   At [C]:-1
   At [C]:-1 error
   At /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:173 bumpInto
   At /mod/class/Actor.lua:2699 attack
   At /engine/interface/ActorLife.lua:41 check
   At [string "return function(self, x, y, what, ...) local ..."]:1 checkAllEntities
   At /engine/Actor.lua:184 move
   At /mod/class/Actor.lua:994 move
   At /mod/class/Player.lua:241 moveDir
   At /mod/class/Game.lua:1353
   At /engine/KeyBind.lua:224

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:36 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
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That looks like it's my fault -- let me see if I can replicate.

Sorry, and thanks for reporting!

EDIT: very strange -- that debuff is something which I've seen work many times in my own games. I'll see if I can find the bug.

EDIT v2: I'm unable to replicate this -- Dismayed works fine for me on a character built to match your own -- could you remove all your addons except mine (and the ones which ship with ToME) and see if the bug still manifests for you?

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