ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:27 am 
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Halfling

Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:04 pm
Posts: 85
Yeah, I've talked to nate about Fortuitous, and we do plan to cut the numbers down as well as introduce some diminishing returns so that 5/5 isn't as amazing.

I want to include maybe one more tree that is a damage dealing fortune-burner, and nate had an idea for a low-luck tree, so we'll address those concerns.

We have addressed concern D already to some extent (dunno if we got healing monsters, but I think we got the rest).

I'll think about removing or at least locking some talents. I'll discuss this with nate and think about this myself...

EDIT: One thing to note: Fortune has a neutral point at 1/2 of your fortune, and that's where you swap from having bonuses to having penalties so your fortune isn't QUITE as high as the number makes it appear.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:54 pm 
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Halfling

Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:04 pm
Posts: 85
Sorry for the double post, but I decided what I want to do with certainty. Your concerns there are really valid.

Therefore they will now work for the lesser of: Talent Level attacks or their Current Turn limits. This still won't make Timeless Shalore worthless as it simply gives them more time to perform their trickery. (They don't need to burn it all on say, Flurry)

Also, your concern with E having Turn the Tables be a way to get fortune: That's working as intended. :) I want to reward clever talent use.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:26 am 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:35 am
Posts: 261
New upload of beta 4.

Partially addresses concerns; there is more planned, but I realized I want to take a short break (like, just a day, please) from coding, and I wanted to release what fixes I've already got.

Charmed life description altered to prevent confusion (it doesn't give life, it's not supposed to)
Decks will now properly auto-destruct at 0 cards
Hit Me will now do correct damage (that one was embarassing)
Endless Decks will now insert drawn cards instead of regenerating on shuffle
Bluff radius, damage has been slightly decreased; risk to self made explicit in desc
All talents in Felicity tree now gain diminishing returns from both talent level and current Fortune (this will make them more powerful at lvl 1, btw)
Turn the Tables countdown increased; passive crit rate buff slightly decreased

Note that changes to items will not take effect until creating a new character (although new maps may or may not spawn updated items).

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:52 am 
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Halfling

Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:04 pm
Posts: 85
nate, go ahead. You deserve a break! Take some time.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:21 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:18 am
Posts: 1081
Location: Angolwen
can we get vague descriptions on deck egos? it took me a while to realize how awesome decks of Exorcism are. saving them all for dreadfell!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:43 am 
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Halfling

Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:04 pm
Posts: 85
Sradac wrote:
can we get vague descriptions on deck egos? it took me a while to realize how awesome decks of Exorcism are. saving them all for dreadfell!


Heh. Wait until you see the artifact deck Sol Exorcismus.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:11 am 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:35 am
Posts: 261
Sradac wrote:
can we get vague descriptions on deck egos?


Actually a bit of a difficult problem. I'd rather not edit tooltip code; the biggest difference between decks is damage types, which are determined by suit. Prefixes and suffixes can each modify suits, and some decks might have a tremendous number of suits (think a deck of Major Arcana, where all 21 or 22 cards might have different damage types). Beyond that, damage types can have widely varying effects, and their structure is really open-- meaning there's no systematic way to present info on what all damage types are, meaning that frequently, just telling a player a damage type isn't any better than not telling them anything at all.

I don't think Fayd or I are particularly averse to letting players figure this out on their own-- discovery is fun-- but we're totally willing to hear suggestions on what would be the best way to present this information (or any other information you'd think is important!) So got any suggestions?

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Last edited by nate on Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:31 am 
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Halfling

Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:04 pm
Posts: 85
Actually, an idea hit me just now nate; a lore Article explaining them in in-world terms perhaps? That may be non-ideal, but it should keep some of the discovery aspect in place.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:11 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:18 am
Posts: 1081
Location: Angolwen
I love that idea Fayd. There isnt enough new lore in this game. Being able to find lore to not tell you exactly what the decks and suits do, but a brief "hint" would be cool.

For example, I found a deck of Legerdemain and for the life of me I cant figure out what it does. At first I thought it was a deck of only Clubs because for about 10-15 cards in a row thats all I drew, then I started drawing all the other suits so that thought was wrong.

Also, I have played a wyrdthief up to level 15 or 16 so...Feedback!

I really love this class, its got such a unique feel. If there was ever a contender for an Addon to be merged into the core game I really personally feel this should be it. Its still very early on with its development and the balance is great and tons of features.

Certainty is a tree I have fell in love with. While sure the effects are pretty short lived and high in Fortune cost, they are powerful so the balance is perfect. I really love the aspect that you can build up and save your "Good fortune" for some decent passives, or you can burn through your fortune to create some really "Heroic" moments.

Gambler and Dealer are both tons of fun. While at this level I wouldnt say they are really powerful, I cant see myself making a build to focus around them they are nice to weaken an enemy a little bit before they get into melee range.

I think we need some more in the lines of defense or escape or something. While I can get really high defense which is nice, when I finally do get hit, it hurts and it hurts bad. Also, magic hurts. Bluff is a decent escape but you cant rely on it all the time since the card wont go through enemies. If a wyrdthief gets surrounded, you're kinda screwed unless you kept a teleport rune on you.

I do agree we need another fortune burning tree though. Even if you just renamed Lethality and made the talents cost Fortune could even work.

Lethality -> Charmed Blades
Deadly Strikes -> Lucky Strikes
Willful Combat -> Opportunist
Snap -> Contingency or Contingent Plan

I cant comment on the stealth or Grace trees since I've never been much of a Stealth person in ToME, too unreliable and requires too much investment for my personal taste.

I am definitely looking forward to seeing the other 2 classes and I really hope you guys are able to find the time to keep up the awesome work.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:47 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:18 am
Posts: 1081
Location: Angolwen
So. You can farm Fortune from the Eidolon. Just sayin.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:08 pm 
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Halfling

Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:04 pm
Posts: 85
We'll have to fix that...I mean, I'm sure the Eidolon has plenty of luck to spare but that's hardly the point!

You'll be happy to know we're retooling Grace significantly. It still has some stealth bonuses, but it's much more an "escape" tree now, and even has an offensive measure in it. Now You See Me is a pretty darn good escape if I do say so myself.

There will be at least one more fortune burning tree coming from what I'm doing with Oracles, and Champions may result in another tree.

I will, however, give some thought to that idea.

Oh, yeah, I suppose I should say. The next class, Oracle, is in the concept phase. :D

I am honored you think so highly of our work. It really means a lot to me to hear that. I will want to continue to meet expectations!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:37 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:35 am
Posts: 261
New version, major changes:

Decks are now equipped in the tool slot. A few stat-raising egos have been added.
Certainty talents now can only affect a certain number of actions within its duration.
Guided Steps (Grace 1) has been reduced in strength and folded into Caution (Grace 3)
Grace 1 is new talent, Serendipity, a sustain that allows one to reflect melee damage when your attackers miss (and a few status effects at higher levels)
You no longer gain Fortune when using Steal Luck or Heist on yourself, a member of your own faction, or a member of the "neutral" faction (like the Eidolon)
Sticky fingers now gives a diminishing amount of gold when used multiple times on a single mob (no healer farming).

Discovered Dealers Choice is majorly broken, that's what I'll be working on next.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:47 am 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:35 am
Posts: 261
Beta 6:

Major problems with Dealers Choice, especially Poker, fixed
Games will now be preserved between sessions
Sol Exorcismus regeneration now coded The Right Way
Ammo count for decks added to to display
No longer see card while targeting with Hit Me (no more cancelling out to see top card)
Aces are now considered high in appropriate games
There is a now a chance of failure (meaning lost card) with Underhanded Dealing
You now lose your hand when shuffling or unequipping a deck

Todo:
Despite my best efforts, card projectiles still bug out when they span sessions. I'll come up with a fix somehow or other, have to sleep on it.

EDIT: Oh, and a simple new artifact created for testing purposes but left in ("bought for science-- kept for skin")

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Last edited by nate on Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:28 am 
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Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:43 am
Posts: 6005
nate, try something like:

self:projectile(tg, x, y, function(self, tg, tx, ty, card)
local bId = self:getTalentFromId(self.T_BLUFF)
local oldX, oldY = self.x, self.y

...

game.zone:addEntity(game.level, trap, "trap", oldX, oldY)
game.level.map:particleEmitter(oldX, oldY, 1, "summon")
end
end, 0)

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:04 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:35 am
Posts: 261
HousePet, thanks, that works! Although I really can't understand why-- some combination of being an anonymous function and being told the params it needs are in an argument it's never passed?

In any case, I'm indebted to you.

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