ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:07 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:08 pm
Posts: 22
I would like to share my thoughts about this. I am going to mostly post negative feedback, but I only do this because I like the idea so much. I want to see it really hit its stride. Please keep working at this class!

1) What does luck do? What does accident prone do? Is it worth trying to keep it up on a target? I feel like those concepts need to be better explained.

2) There seems to be very little stat scaling. About half of the skills are flat number increases. I feel this is a problem. This class has a 4 way tug of war with stats, between dex, cun, mag, and con. It feels like I have to put a bunch of points into magic for a tiny passive gain besides unlocking talents. I would like to see the magic stat interact more with talents. Cun is a little bit better, but I still don't feel don't feel like the unique fated talents gain enough from putting points into it.

3) Hit me. Having to target the same or different targets 5 times is pretty annoying. The concept of what card you got does not seem to matter till the 4th tier talent. For that matter, what does the 3rd tier talent do till the 4th tier talent? Maybe make each talent learned unlock one of the games when you put a point into it?

4) Roll the dice (or was it bones?). I despise the self damage mechanic. If I am under 120 hp (the average damage my current character seems to do), I can't use this talent. If am above 120 hp, I still need to consider my hp 120 lower before using this move. I would really like to see this mechanic go. The 2nd tier talent seems like a 1 point wonder. 1 point for 20% more damage off the first move, and another point for an additional 2 seems pretty harsh. The scaling also seems pretty low. 1 point in flurry out damages my 7 points in this tree.

5) Charmed life (I think this the name. 3rd tier in the positive luck tree) . I really dislike having that hp regen go negative. If you exit combat with a low luck score, you are have to play with a dot slowly eating you till you find some chump to eat. Not cool.

Keep going! This class is great!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:45 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:49 pm
Posts: 190
I am getting this error when walking over lava. Not sure if this is a result of loading the latest version of the addon on a character created with a previous one.

Lua Error: /hooks/fated/load.lua:331: attempt to call method 'hasEffect' (a nil value)
At [C]:-1 hasEffect
At /hooks/fated/load.lua:331
At [string "return function(l, self, data) local ok=false..."]:1 triggerHook
At /data/damage_types.lua:343 defaultProjector
At /data/damage_types.lua:553 projector
At /data/general/grids/lava.lua:34 check
At /engine/Map.lua:711 checkEntity
At /mod/class/Actor.lua:632 act
At /mod/class/NPC.lua:54 act
At /engine/GameEnergyBased.lua:131 tickLevel
At /engine/GameEnergyBased.lua:62 tick
At /engine/GameTurnBased.lua:46 tick
At /mod/class/Game.lua:1042


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:43 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:35 am
Posts: 261
finn wrote:
I would like to share my thoughts about this. I am going to mostly post negative feedback, but I only do this because I like the idea so much. I want to see it really hit its stride. Please keep working at this class!
Absolutely, it's totally appreciated!
Quote:
1) What does luck do?
I'm thinking about granting characters a sort of "Luck Vision" that lets players with a Fortune Pool directly inspect their own or another's Luck. I could add a tooltip text there with some general information. Do you think that would help?
Quote:
2) There seems to be very little stat scaling.
Thanks, I believe you're correct. The class will need some major overhauls before it's complete.

Quote:
The concept of what card you got does not seem to matter till the 4th tier talent.
The damage scales linearly with the value of the card drawn. That allows one to use the talent to gain, on average, up to double damage (given unlimited Fortune). I'll double check that that's in the talent description.
Quote:
Maybe make each talent learned unlock one of the games when you put a point into it?
That's an interesting idea. Would you then recommend leaving the fourth talent as an independently usable talent, just one that is a sort of freebie, granted on learning any talent? Or can you think of another way to handle it?
Quote:
1 point for 20% more damage off the first move, and another point for an additional 2 seems pretty harsh.
Thanks, you're right. As a DOT, I think that 4% per additional talent level would be better. We'll revisit the scaling as well.

Quote:
I really dislike having that hp regen go negative. If you exit combat with a low luck score, you are have to play with a dot slowly eating you till you find some chump to eat. Not cool.
Agreed. I'll talk to Fayd about that.

Quote:
Keep going! This class is great!
Thank you-- seriously, criticism is very, very valuable, and I know that it requires effort and thought (and at least a little bit of courage!) Right now, I believe that the Wyrdthief is probably going to require a somewhat major redesign.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:11 pm 
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Halfling

Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:04 pm
Posts: 85
Just popping in to say that the negative HP regen thing was not intended. It was an oversight in what I told nate to code. I apologize to everybody!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:01 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:08 pm
Posts: 22
The tool tip idea would go a long way. It makes a bunch of sense.

As for the hit me idea, I would suggest starting with hit me, and the game skill at level 1. Each new talent adds a game. The 4th tier talent should do some kind of card manipulation. My idea is to let the players pick up to talent point cards, and re deal them(talent level 5 throws the discarded cards as 1 attack!).


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 5:55 am 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:35 am
Posts: 261
Fated b14.

--New melee Fortune-based class: Agonist
--New graphic from rexorcorum for Sol Exorcismus
--Various bugfixes (incl walking on lava, sorry bout that)
--Fortune now decays when above neutral; fortune no longer starts at/near max
--Characters with a Fortune pool can now see their own and others' Luck attribute, and are given a little bonus info when looking at timed effects that debuff/increase Luck
--Decks now list their damage type in their description
--No more negative life regen from Charmed Life in Felicity

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Proud father of Fx4fx and Chronometer add-ons; proud mother of Fated add-on


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 10:58 am 
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Low Yeek

Joined: Fri May 03, 2013 10:55 am
Posts: 8
Bugs on Agonist:
1) When you enter new area group after using Rod of Recall you get 0 Fortune. Than renders some builds unplayable (oriented on felicity)
2) Charmed life description says nothing about life regen


Nice class, but I cannot play it with the bug #1


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 11:54 am 
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Archmage

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:54 am
Posts: 379
Location: Wroclaw/Poland
Interesting the new class.

I'm looking forward playing it.

Cheers:)


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 2:27 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:18 am
Posts: 1081
Location: Angolwen
Lets get some infos on Agonist!


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 2:57 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:35 am
Posts: 261
Sradac wrote:
Lets get some infos on Agonist!


Melee based, should pump WP, maybe Cunning, no weapon preference. Combat Veteran, Battle Tactics (locked), Combat Training, Conditioning, Field Control (locked), Mobility (locked).

Generics:
Felicity + Disaster.
Onuses: Vendetta, Itinerancy, Geas, and Nemesis. Vendetta lets you declare a vendetta against a faction or subtype, gaining bonus damage during the vendetta, and fortune when the vendetta completes. Itinerancy restores Stamina when you use Fortune. Geas gives +4% resist all and -14% resist cap to a major damage type randomly generated at time of learn. Nemesis seeks out the toughest enemy on the level and gives it and you Nemesis, such that both of you do more damage (scaling with damage done already) and you can cooldown their talents with any melee hit.

New techniques:
Impetus: Leverage, Impetus, Moment, and Spring. Leverage is a zero-turn unarmed attack + swap. Impetus is a short-range rush that leaves you with inertia (carrying you forward each turn). Moment is a powerful attack anytime you have inertia-- make a drive-by, or turn all of your inertia into one big attack. Spring is a short-range jump that leaves you with inertia. Inertia affects the targeting of both Spring and Impetus-- can't spring backwards if you've got inertia, but you can spring farther forwards.

Fated trees:
Intrepidity: A reworked Certainty tree combined with Fortune generation. Bluster (one turn of free autoevade), Scorn (one free crit), Audacity (one free save), Chutzpah (one free immunity check)
Inevitability: Willpower requirements. Predestination applies killing damage to your Fortune. Inexorable lets you move slowly even when confused, pinned, stunned. Doom is Luck debuff/ DD melee. Hero's Return is short duration recall.
Improbability: Cunning requirements. Gambit steps backward, leaving a trap that causes your opponent to get Counterstrike trait. Also has a chance with level of making your next attack an All or Nothing attack that drains a huge chunk of your Fortune and takes extra time but does lots of damage. Dark Horse gves you stat bonuses scaling with how low your life is. Windfall is melee DD that takes a beneficial effect from your opponent and applies it to yourself. Synchronicity delays your movement until you're targeted, moving out of the way just as a melee or ranged attack lands.
Impossibility: Locked. Forewarning gives you warning when targeted by mobs you couldnt see, letting you act just before they do. Supernatural Aid summons an invisible helper. Reversal of Fortune reflects sourced effects onto their source. Death and Rebirth improves your die_at and eventually gives you another life.
Folly: Locked. All talents here cost relative Fortune (cost negative fortune when below your neutral point), so act as Fortune generation. Dieth the Wise is a melee DD that scales with how low your life is. Not to the Swift is an AOE move debuff that increases with the target's move speed. Despair Ye Mighty is AOE temporal/physical damage that destroys walls as well. Absurdity is sustain that causes attacks by and against you to heal instead of damage.

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Proud father of Fx4fx and Chronometer add-ons; proud mother of Fated add-on


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 1:25 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:18 am
Posts: 1081
Location: Angolwen
Oooh. Lets use nemesis on dreadfell 9 and see what happens! :twisted:


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 4:15 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:31 pm
Posts: 186
Is Agonist a renamed Champion or is the Champion still a planned class?

Either way keep up the good work, you guys are awesome! I'll give this class a whirl as soon as I beat the game(finally :D ).


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 4:34 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:35 am
Posts: 261
Amphouse wrote:
Is Agonist a renamed Champion or is the Champion still a planned class?

Either way keep up the good work, you guys are awesome! I'll give this class a whirl as soon as I beat the game(finally :D ).


The Agonist was my vision of Fayd's Champion. After I created it, Fayd said, "No, that's not what I was thinking for the Champion, but keep it in." So I believe a Champion is still planned.

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Proud father of Fx4fx and Chronometer add-ons; proud mother of Fated add-on


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 1:30 am 
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Wayist

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:44 am
Posts: 20
Fated seems interesting and unique. Would you give me permission to localize the addon for Japanese?


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:08 am 
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Halfling

Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:04 pm
Posts: 85
Nate, what do you say? I have no objections. What are your localization plans? (My fiance speaks Japanese and wrote her thesis on localization so this is something that intrigues me)


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