ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:47 am 
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Cornac

Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:16 pm
Posts: 41
The levelup display doesn't show you how many talents you can learn based on your current constitution. (it would also be good if it showed how many talents you currently have learned/how many points you have left) Also, does the talent cap count the regular talents you learn through leveling up, or just the ones you gain from enemies? Does talent rank have anything to do with it? Do generics count toward the total? (curious how it works)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:35 am 
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Cornac

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:49 am
Posts: 33
Senteth wrote:
The levelup display doesn't show you how many talents you can learn based on your current constitution. (it would also be good if it showed how many talents you currently have learned/how many points you have left)
Fixed in 0.0.7a.

Senteth wrote:
Also, does the talent cap count the regular talents you learn through leveling up, or just the ones you gain from enemies? Does talent rank have anything to do with it? Do generics count toward the total? (curious how it works)
The cap counts only Digested talents. Not sure what you mean by talent rank. If you mean raw level, then yes; the level of all Digested talents is equal to their raw level, since they are learned at 1.00 mastery. And, Digested generics do count toward your cap.

_________________
Author of the Glutton class.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:38 pm 
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Cornac

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:21 am
Posts: 32
GLUTTON RUINED MY ALCHEMIST :(
i was trying to unlock oozemancer and was working my thalore alchemist up to level 30, around level 20 glutton was updated and my game was made invalid. i am worried that if i unlock oozemancer, it wont count because of this. so i replaced glutton, i went from 5 to 7 and now my inventory is all screwed up, the ammo slot is in the bottom right of the inventory and i can't equip gems or use the ones i already have equipped. i went back to glutton 5 and this fixed the problem but now my game is invalid again. can anyone help me with this problem please??


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:46 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:18 am
Posts: 1081
Location: Angolwen
maybe dont load addons if you arent going to be actually using that addon? Lesson learned! Even for just sheer performance boosting, I turn off what I dont need. Stone warden almost never gets turned on anymore.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:55 pm 
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Cornac

Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:16 pm
Posts: 41
I like a lot of the changes, but the cap currently seems too restrictive, particularly since it applies to generic and class points equally. Maybe split them into two separate caps? (also, I really miss being able to nom stat points off of rares/bosses, it added a very unique twist to the class)

Early-game is a whole lot harder than its already difficult start thanks to the new restrictions- not only are the initial skills you're picking up fairly crappy, but now you can only have a tiny number of them. (and about half of them are going to generics besides) Haven't gotten any characters far enough yet to see whether that paradigm changes once you survive the starting zones. :(

[edit:] Looks like you can't even unlearn some of the generics in order to free up slots for stuff useful to your build. It seems that even if you drag passive talents (like weapons mastery for example) onto your hotbar, it won't let you do anything with them, making the cap even more restrictive.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:25 pm 
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Halfling

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:37 pm
Posts: 92
I do like the changes as well, the added pica tree is awesome, and finally gives me something useful to do with my crap artifacts. 2 things I've noticed

1: There's no way to unlearn passives you pick up from digest. This has always been true, but before the cap it was just annoying, but not breaking. I didn't really want acid blood, but at least i could just ignore it, now, it eats a slot, which means I can't get something else.

2: From the 7 and 7a releases, but not before. devour fails sometimes. It seems, just based on observation, that the damage is dealt, THEN the swallow is applied. If the damage by itself is enough to kill something, it doesn't reduce hunger, give you the mob in your stomach, or anything. This might be deliberate, but if so, at least the hunger should drop anyway... Leading me to

3: I'm almost constantly at max or close to max hunger. The class really needs another resource management skill... something AOE, or at least ranged. Possibly something like the Doomed Feed would work, it's just that I'm almost always at cap on the resource, and that makes the class real... slow, I guess, with the low regen. It should be a factor, but not always at cap like that. I almost want to see devour as a sustain, but without the instakill, maybe just a damage boost. ADDITION - maybe a passive for hunger regen, then the active for actually putting something in the stomach.


EDIT: Also, the unlearning doesn't seem to be working. It drops on the display, so then I'll go from 8/8 to 7/8, but then I'll digest something, it'll say I'm at max, then when I check again it's 8/8, but I didn't learn anything new.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:56 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:02 am
Posts: 703
Given that the class keeps alternating between being too weak at low levels and too strong at high levels, why not set starting HP to, say, 300, and give no increase with level? Considering that most players will max CON and get a bunch of defensive abilities, I don't think that would overly nerf the class at high levels, and it would help with the start.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:58 pm 
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Cornac

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:21 am
Posts: 32
well, glutton is inactive, has been inactive, and i believe it was inactive when i started the game, i've never had this problem before and don't believe i was due a lesson, Sradac, but if you aim to teach me one then we may meet in the alleys of Derth, and you will pay for my education with your screams. no but seriously, idk what is different this time that made my game all screwed up. i guess i'll just try to finish the game and see if the unlock counts, thanks for all your help.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:31 pm 
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Halfling

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:37 pm
Posts: 92
I think I've gotten unlocks and stuff with bad addons before queebles, but i don't remember for sure. It would be worth finishing to see.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:52 pm 
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Halfling

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:37 pm
Posts: 92
Parcae2 wrote:
Given that the class keeps alternating between being too weak at low levels and too strong at high levels, why not set starting HP to, say, 300, and give no increase with level? Considering that most players will max CON and get a bunch of defensive abilities, I don't think that would overly nerf the class at high levels, and it would help with the start.

Maxing con only gives around 240 hp from points, and, i think the hard start cap is still 100, so that's a total, max hp, of 700 hp for a con based class. That doesn't seem like near enough. I'm not good at the game in general, and I've never had a glutton past about l15, but i can't imagine this type of character having less hp than like an archmage (which, i often build with maxed con, although not until late game). I agree something needs adjusted somewhere, but I'm not sure that's how to do it, they seem to be too tally for that.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:39 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:02 am
Posts: 703
Well, yeah, but bear in mind that, by the time the HP deficit starts to bite, they would potentially have access to every defensive skill in the game. Blurred Mortality would make up most of the deficit by itself.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:27 am 
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Cornac

Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:16 pm
Posts: 41
Parcae2 wrote:
Well, yeah, but bear in mind that, by the time the HP deficit starts to bite, they would potentially have access to every defensive skill in the game. Blurred Mortality would make up most of the deficit by itself.
Not every defensive skill- even with a max of 100 CON, the new talent restrictions will only let you have 25 talents in total. (including generics) You can have a lot of good defensive talents, but you can't have all of them, not if you want anything left over for offense.

Off the top of my head there's:

Healing Light
Barrier
Providence
Second Life
Retribution
Blurred Mortality
Vampiric Gift
The Time Warden damage displacement skill whose name escapes me
Damage Smearing
Carbon Spikes
Entropic Field
Energy Absorption
Kinetic Shield
Thermal Shield
Charged Shield
Premonition
Arcane Reconstruction
Aegis
Arcane Shield
Disruption Shield
Displacement Shield
Resolve*
Antimagic Shield*
Bone Shield
Rampage (counts as two talents if you get the passive skill that allows rampage to shrug off damage while it's active)

There's also a whole host of other physical defense skills like the Bulwark's shield wall or a Rogue's two-weapon defense, along with any monster-only defense skills or defensive skills I've forgotten to list, but we're already past the limit. Now, this here would be an incredibly tanky character, but its offensive capability would be essentially nil.

With a more balanced skill loadout including utility and offense skills, you'd have only a handful of defensive options at your disposal- still powerful, but not enough to warrant the HP penalty in my opinion. (at least not without forcing the player to adopt a more defense-oriented build and denying them more diverse playstyles)

I'm also not sure how helpful the idea of frontloading their HP at the start is. Yes, it would give them a bit more of a buffer, but without offensive/defensive/utility skills at their disposal having a buffer is of strictly limited use IMHO. (blindsided by shadows in the Heart of Gloom while the Withering Thing blocks your escape and pounds on you? Good luck killing it with your tiny handful of low-level skills gleaned from trash mobs before it chews through your 300 extra HP)





*Not sure if you can get these off of enemies yet, at least not without becoming antimagic yourself. Must test.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:27 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:02 am
Posts: 703
You don't need all of those to have an incredibly tanky character. You don't even need most of those to have an incredibly tanky character. Archmages are probably the tankiest class in the game - the four Aegis talents are enough to ensure that by themselves. For that matter, you could just load up your Glutton with a bunch of Corrupter talents, Unstoppable, and Second Life. Second Life would stop you from getting one-shotted around corners, and everything would be dead by the time Unstoppable ends.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:47 am 
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Low Yeek

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:03 am
Posts: 9
So, I found the skill 'sunder armor' takes no time to use, never comes off cd. but doesn't do any damage. But the armor pealing still works... and stacks.


Edit; Sunder Armor can kill a mob... if the damage would kill it in one shot.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:45 am 
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Archmage

Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:43 pm
Posts: 356
seems found a glitch:if you permanently unlearn a digest learned talent it will not remove a talent usage for total levels and total totals learned.
2. last time i checked their is no option to unlearn passives.


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