ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal
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Infinite 500: Gameplay Beyond Level 50
http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=35016		 Page 6 of 18
Author:  overtrix [ Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Infinite 500: Gameplay Beyond Level 50
RIP Mandy ... http://te4.org/characters/30097/tome/c1 ... 4cc8c763bd

Anything which introduces variety will be good, presenting reasons to persevere long enough in the ID with native characters or winners from the main campaign. Enemies with about fifty talents all at Level 30+ are a joy which should be shared - amongst which "Unstoppable" is big fun :lol:

It's unavoidably a bit of a plod because (a) there become plenty things which can murder you the moment you give them LoS, especially melee types, which with (b) the new symmetry of LoS meant that Arcane Eye + Fireflash was increasingly the sole recipe, and (c) losing your sustains is really serious, in particular going anywhere near a Champion of Whotsit sees them blinking out quickly. Many claps to those who tackle it in proper roguelike fashion.

Stair guardians become the dominant factor, or did for me anyway - first find the stairs carefully and play chess, then can pretty much autoexplore the remainder. Is there a way to buff the rares and/or make them less rare (a little !) in return for nerfing the stair guardians a touch ? ... on reflection I'm not sure though, there were only two (a dreaming horror and an oozing horror) which seemed that they would be morelikelythannotadeaths.

In any event thanks for the addon, it's obviously built from a stack of hard work and imagination.
Author:  Hachem_Muche [ Wed May 01, 2013 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Infinite 500: Gameplay Beyond Level 50
Wow! Grats on getting so far!

overtrix wrote:
Anything which introduces variety will be good, presenting reasons to persevere long enough in the ID with native characters or winners from the main campaign. Enemies with about fifty talents all at Level 30+ are a joy which should be shared - amongst which "Unstoppable" is big fun :lol:

Variety is obviously an issue and I've been adding things like major events and some level variation to break up the routine. More is on the way. For the next release, I've tweaked the number of bonus talents random bosses get and nerfed the high end of Unstoppable, mostly because it's really annoying to have to wait 20 turns for it to wear off a boss with 0 life.
overtrix wrote:
It's unavoidably a bit of a plod because (a) there become plenty things which can murder you the moment you give them LoS, especially melee types, which with (b) the new symmetry of LoS meant that Arcane Eye + Fireflash was increasingly the sole recipe, and (c) losing your sustains is really serious, in particular going anywhere near a Champion of Whotsit sees them blinking out quickly. Many claps to those who tackle it in proper roguelike fashion.

The amount of plod vs. challenge is a difficult balance. Cakewalks are boring too. Infinite 500 is designed to extend the well-balanced Maj'Eyal campaign to high levels while gradually increasing the difficulty. You have to be careful because you're not safe. To get deep into the I.D. requires character planning from low levels. Those talent categories escorts offer you become very valuable when you get enough talent points to invest in them. Telepathy is really useful for finding and keeping track of dangerous enemies, and summons/pets, either from artifacts or talents like the cursed-aura/corruption-hex trees are great for distracting some enemies long enough to take a few safe shots at them.

Have you tried my tooltip addon? http://te4.org/games/addons/tome/plenum ... splay-tome
It allows you to see a lot of important info from the character inspection screen in the tooltips. I designed it specifically to speed up play by helping you identify dangerous NPCs quickly.
Author:  Hachem_Muche [ Fri May 10, 2013 12:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Infinite 500: Gameplay Beyond Level 50
Version 1.9 for ToME 1.0.3 is now available at http://te4.org/sites/default/files/game ... 0v1.9.teaa

Revised trap scaling slightly.
Tweaked the number of talents random bosses get.
Updated some older sections of code to be more compatible with other addons.
Added a new drop to the I.D. to learn the corruption/hexes talent tree.
Author:  guliniu [ Fri May 10, 2013 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Infinite 500: Gameplay Beyond Level 50
I got a error message when my mouse move to the talent Technique / Bloodthirst - Unstoppable.
This is my first time to use the addons and it looks like very interesting.

The version of this addons is 1.9: Compatible with ToME 1.0.3
The following is the error message:
Quote:
error = "Lua Error: /data-Infinite500/talents/techniques/bloodthirst.lua:95: attempt to call method 'combatTalentLimit' (a nil value)\
At [C]:-1 combatTalentLimit\
At /data-Infinite500/talents/techniques/bloodthirst.lua:95 getDuration\
At /data-Infinite500/talents/techniques/bloodthirst.lua:111 info\
At .../Infinite500/superload/engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:76 info\
At /mod/class/Actor.lua:4064 getTalentFullDescription\
At /mod/dialogs/LevelupDialog.lua:877 getTalentDesc\
At ...dons/Infinite500/superload/mod/dialogs/LevelupDialog.lua:129 tooltip\
At /mod/dialogs/elements/TalentTrees.lua:109 fct\
At /engine/Mouse.lua:72 receiveMouseMotion\
At /engine/Mouse.lua:91 delegate\
At /engine/ui/Dialog.lua:525 mouseEvent\
At /engine/ui/Dialog.lua:304 fct\
At /engine/Mouse.lua:72 "
seen = true
reported = false
Author:  lilywhite [ Fri May 10, 2013 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Infinite 500: Gameplay Beyond Level 50
Code:
Lua Error: /data-Infinite500/talents/techniques/conditioning.lua:70: attempt to call method 'combatStatLimit' (a nil value)
   At [C]:-1 combatStatLimit
   At /data-Infinite500/talents/techniques/conditioning.lua:70 getChance
   At /data/talents/techniques/conditioning.lua:121 do_unflinching_resolve
   At /mod/addons/Infinite500/superload/mod/class/Actor.lua:247 actBase
   At /engine/GameEnergyBased.lua:116 tickLevel
   At /engine/GameEnergyBased.lua:62 tick
   At /engine/GameTurnBased.lua:46 tick
   At /mod/class/Game.lua:1054


i500 and the zomnibus pack running, no other addons.
Author:  ajfluffy [ Fri May 10, 2013 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Infinite 500: Gameplay Beyond Level 50
err got hit by traps on level 1 for hundreds of damage and it just got worse from there on... may be a small issue with trap damage :mrgreen:
Author:  Hachem_Muche [ Fri May 10, 2013 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Infinite 500: Gameplay Beyond Level 50
I've downloaded a corrected version (1.9a) at http://te4.org/sites/default/files/game ... v1.9a.teaa

It includes some code that was left out inadvertently.

ajfluffy wrote:
err got hit by traps on level 1 for hundreds of damage and it just got worse from there on... may be a small issue with trap damage :mrgreen:


Yeah, not a good thing. There was a problem with scaling out of depth traps that is now fixed.
Author:  lilywhite [ Sat May 11, 2013 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Infinite 500: Gameplay Beyond Level 50
What is the answer to enemies with resists all >100% from ridiculous levels of thick skin?

how do you actually kill them?
Author:  Hachem_Muche [ Sat May 11, 2013 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Infinite 500: Gameplay Beyond Level 50
You need the appropriate resistance penetration. Several classes have talents that provide this stat for the damage they generate, and it's available on various equipment.
Author:  RARaines [ Tue May 14, 2013 4:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Infinite 500: Gameplay Beyond Level 50
So dig. This add-on disables auto-id for skeletons. I think it might for ghouls too, but definately for skeletons. v1.9a.
Author:  Hachem_Muche [ Tue May 14, 2013 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Infinite 500: Gameplay Beyond Level 50
I have uploaded version 1.9b which includes a bug fix that was making the lichform quest impossible to complete. As a bonus, The Dark Codex is no longer consumed in the ritual and has another use besides the quest.

http://te4.org/sites/default/files/game ... v1.9b.teaa
Author:  Sirioh [ Tue May 14, 2013 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Infinite 500: Gameplay Beyond Level 50
The plans for improving ID variety, I presume it can't be as simple as occasionally calling a different level-generating function from different maps? Or even just using the farportal's level generator, which already provides random level designs as well as the level's "tile environment". But mostly I am thinking that I wouldn't mind seeing some of the non-ID vault types in the ID, like some of the Old Forest's special vaults. The more difficult (or perhaps simpler) thing would be to make the various vaults available for the ID to choose from, but I think it would be cooler (and provide more variety) if you saw chunks torn out of the surface world and spawned in the ID itself. This even includes strange "surface-like" maps, fully lighted, despite being however deep beneath the surface. I should think those sorts of weird physics wouldn't be outside the powers of a trickster god.
Author:  Hachem_Muche [ Thu May 16, 2013 5:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Infinite 500: Gameplay Beyond Level 50
I have uploaded version 1.9c at http://te4.org/sites/default/files/game ... v1.9c.teaa

This fixes the problem with undead I.D. and tweaks talent based traps slightly while letting them inherit the trapper's resistance penetration.

Sirioh wrote:
The plans for improving ID variety, I presume it can't be as simple as occasionally calling a different level-generating function from different maps? Or even just using the farportal's level generator, which already provides random level designs as well as the level's "tile environment". But mostly I am thinking that I wouldn't mind seeing some of the non-ID vault types in the ID, like some of the Old Forest's special vaults. The more difficult (or perhaps simpler) thing would be to make the various vaults available for the ID to choose from, but I think it would be cooler (and provide more variety) if you saw chunks torn out of the surface world and spawned in the ID itself. This even includes strange "surface-like" maps, fully lighted, despite being however deep beneath the surface. I should think those sorts of weird physics wouldn't be outside the powers of a trickster god.


These are good ideas. Some of the specialty vaults from Old Forest, etc. would just look a bit strange unless they match the overall level layout. They're generally not set up to scale to high levels and so would need to be redesigned. The farportal level generator could certainly be used, but some of the level types would need to be tweaked to maintain balance. For example, the cave type levels would need to be adjusted so that the player isn't thrown into a large open space with dozens of npc's, rares, and possibly the stair guardian, which would often be certain death.

Pulling in "chunks" of other zone types should be possible with sublevels, so that's something I'll look into as well.
Author:  ajfluffy [ Thu May 16, 2013 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Infinite 500: Gameplay Beyond Level 50
A corrupted zone of a level would be interesting as well. Pulling some of the space themed tiles or a portal to the space area.
Author:  imsabbel [ Thu May 16, 2013 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Infinite 500: Gameplay Beyond Level 50
I mean, if you follow the lore, there is no reason why it needs to be a boring dungeon.

The ID was created by a fleeing god to provide obstacles for his hunter. Those could be lava calderas just as well as infested forrests - those make just as much sense as stone walled tunnels.
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