ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:34 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:42 pm
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No real reason not to have something like the alchemist quests in the I.D. The usual quest wouldn't work, of course, since there's no way to go back to the same NPC.

About 90% of the scaling code has been added to the Git repository (for 1.0.5), and once all of that is done, I plan on focusing more on new content. Keep bugging DarkGod to finish 1.0.5 :)

The Vulcus (siege) event is ready but is not 1.0.4 compatible. The next thing to add will be some new terrain features like underground rivers and lava flows and new sublevel content (like towns and special level types) to the I.D. levels, and any special quests could be handled there.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:37 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 8:26 pm
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Finally, more variety then just dreadfell, dreadfell, and more dreadfell. I'll definitely have to be looking forward to that. On a related note, this new scaling content is the same or a more developer approved version of what you did in I500, correct? Does that mean that I500 will lose a lot of it's overwrite functions, thus gaining massive compatibility with other addons? Or will you still be running your separate different set of scaling in I500?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:56 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:42 pm
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What's wrong with Dreadfell?

Most of the gameplay mechanics in I500 will be part of the main game, so the addon (starting with version 2.0) will be mostly about content and should be more compatible with other addons.

The scaling features going in are the same as the I500 features from version 1.10 (ToME 1.0.4), except that the code has been updated to be easier to use by developers, some game mechanics have been revised slightly, and I've fleshed out some changes that have been in the works for a while or that were otherwise lower priority. I500 will still scale consistently with the main game. That won't change.

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=38632 provides a pretty thorough (slightly technical) overview of how the new scaling methods work, including how to make new content scale better.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:28 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 8:26 pm
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Location: Nahgharash
Nothing's really *wrong* with dreadfell, per se, but it gets marginally bland to see the same level generation algorithms several hundred floors in a row. (over the course of multiple playthroughs, obviously.) It's more a question of variety. Even just changing the wall graphics without altering the map template would help a bit with tedium, but running the same generation type over and over does get a bit bland. Granted, more open map types like trollmire might create some balancing issues, but it seems that a mighty god running forever away could be marginally more creative then stone-walled labyrinths, over and over. Why not chaotic caverns filled with bioluminescent fungus providing light, thus supporting vegetation, plants and trees, looking no different then an outdoor area? Even areas that existed underwater (presumably with a fairly good supply of bubbles, or the occasional area with a pocket of air you could rest in), or areas with other unique effects. Shifting temporal landscapes, mazes, slimy sludgepits that would spawn ooze from the walls, it just all seems bland compared to the maingame. Even just the same map types, with the occasional special effect (like the global effects on high peak), or thunderstorms (or some underground variations) could exist. By definition, infinity could encompass anything, and the powers of a god forever generating new places would be marginally more creative then just more stone walls in the dirt.

Eh, just my minor pet peeve. I brought it up a ways back, but apparently there would be balance issues with other map generation types. Adding at least a little variety with some water streamers would at least spice the place up a bit, so I look forward to seeing the next version. Keep up the good work! :D

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:51 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
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I totally agree with Crim / Aura here.

The thing that's wrong with Dreadfell is that it's only one type of map, and more variety == more interesting to me.

That's part of what attracted me to ToME (and also DCSS) over NetHack: the variety of map types and the different tactical challenges they presented.

IMHO the Infinite Dungeon could be made more interesting for people like me by increasing the variety of the maps generated.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:28 am 
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Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:43 am
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You could rip my alchemist code from Arcanum if you wanted a stand alone alchemy set.
Could make the potion recipes as random lore drops.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:17 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:29 am
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Location: Turtlemire
Just out of curiosity, simply adding the chat line to items wouldn't work? (About Alchemist quests)

Like how Orb of Scrying used to work?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:39 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:42 pm
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Dreadfell forever!

I'm kidding of course! With all the development and testing I've done in the I.D., I don't need any convincing that it needs a lot more variety.

StarKeep wrote:
Just out of curiosity, simply adding the chat line to items wouldn't work? (About Alchemist quests)

Like how Orb of Scrying used to work?

This could be done, of course, but if you could get stuff back and forth to the alchemists, why can't you get out yourself? It's just a conceptual issue, but I think a new, unique (though equivalent) quest line would be more interesting.
HousePet wrote:
You could rip my alchemist code from Arcanum if you wanted a stand alone alchemy set.
Could make the potion recipes as random lore drops.
Actually, I'm hoping that I500 and Arcanum will be fully compatible after this. What incompatibilities are there after 1.10c?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:57 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 8:26 pm
Posts: 2000
Location: Nahgharash
I'm not aware of any. I've happily played a number of Arcanists in the ID. And adventurers with arcanist/elementalist talents. Granted, they didn't get far, but still. Why would there be incompatibilities?

*waits for housepet's response*

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SadistSquirrel wrote:
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:12 am 
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Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:43 am
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I'm not aware of any. :)
However this could mean that people aren't trying to use the two together much, or that people aren't reporting issues.

There are likely to be a few places with tweaks overriding the tweaks in the other addon though.
If anyone reports conflicting tweaks I'll attempt to iron them out.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:43 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:29 am
Posts: 703
Location: Turtlemire
So, when attempting to use with Jay's newgems, or Minmay's Golem, it kept popping an error that has to do with destroy magic.

Code:
Lua Error: /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:81: talent already exists with id T_DESTROY_MAGIC
   At [C]:-1
   At [C]:-1 assert
   At /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:81 newTalent
   At /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:36 newTalent
   At /data-Infinite500/talents/misc/objects.lua:28 f
   At /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:41 loadDefinition
   At /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:38 load
   At /data-Infinite500/talents/misc/miscI500.lua:29 f
   At /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:41 loadDefinition
   At /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:38 load
   At /data-Infinite500/talentsI500.lua:65 f
   At /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:41 loadDefinition
   At /hooks/Infinite500/load.lua:9
   At [string "return function(l, self, data) local ok=false..."]:1
   At /mod/load.lua:317
   At [C]:-1 require
   At /engine/Module.lua:158 load
   At /engine/Module.lua:720 instanciate
   At /engine/utils.lua:1880 showMainMenu
   At /engine/init.lua:139
   At [C]:-1 dofile
   At /loader/init.lua:196

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<mex> have you heard the good word about archmage?
<mex> I'm here to tell you about your lord and savior shalore archmage
<mex> have you repented your bulwark sins yet?
<mex> cornac shall inherit the Eyal


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:01 am 
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Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:43 am
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I think that one was caused by people not updating to the latest version of I500

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:06 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 8:26 pm
Posts: 2000
Location: Nahgharash
Indeed. That's the same load-order priority bug that made it scramble with generic sauce items, and a few others. The most recent version adjusted it's weight, and that resolved the issue. If it's still doing that now, it may be because other addons are similarly weight-adjusted, though I don't have those to check. (If that is the case, can I500 be adjusted further, so it won't conflict with current or future addons?)

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Currently playing under the name Aura of the Dawn 4 down, 227 to go!
Proud author of Orc Pit Restoration Project, Faction Allies, Dwarven Adventurer addons
SadistSquirrel wrote:
DarkGod has two arms, one with an opened hand, one with a closed fist. You got the fist.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:33 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:29 am
Posts: 703
Location: Turtlemire
I got 1.10c, which is the latest in the list.

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<mex> have you heard the good word about archmage?
<mex> I'm here to tell you about your lord and savior shalore archmage
<mex> have you repented your bulwark sins yet?
<mex> cornac shall inherit the Eyal


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:57 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:42 pm
Posts: 744
Looking into this. This appears to be the same error that should have been fixed with 1.10c, where one of I500's functions was getting overwritten.

Edit: Having looked into this issue, I'm a bit stumped. So I've decided to punt for now and have uploaded a new version that changes the addon weight to 45. I think this is safe with most other addons and I tested it with both New Gems (original version) and Runic Golem.

http://te4.org/sites/default/files/game ... 1.10d.teaa

So there's now 3 versions of I500 up that differ only in their addon weights. To avoid this issue, choose the version with a lower weight that other addons that load new talents. (So that I500 appears higher up in the addon's list)

The problem appears to be an instantiation issue that occurs during hooks processing. I500's newTalent function (in engine.interface.ActorTalents.lua) is being overwritten by other addons that are loaded before it. This function is normally modified in data.talents.lua and is then called with the "ToME:load" hook by addons loading new talents.

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