Re: [1.5.x] Class/Race Tier List
Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 1:09 am
Bump cuz I finally got Fortress access on Madness.
Everything about ToME
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but saw butcher is still in S class - has it been done in 1.5?Micbran wrote:AB got nerfed in 1.5, Shesh used pre-nerf PES to win sawbutcher (so 1.4.9), and the brawler win Mex doesn't believe in (2%).
I think its on topic enoughAny opinions on how to bring the C races up to par?
:O Stun is gonna get changed? Any link where I can read more? Hadn't heard about this.Micbran wrote: Honestly, I think skeleton is mostly fine and after stun gets changed
I've been playing on and off, and remember it mattering a lot before. Has the general amount of XP gained increased? I feel like before, I didn't have a prodigy until somewhere in the far east, but now I have them around Dreadfell.Micbran wrote:If you really wanted to buff them you could hit their XP penalty and pretend that does something.
They pair decently with necromancer (if going with minions), and might maybe work with archmage? Don't know. Though there's obviously stronger choices for all these. However, I think it's a bit of an identity crisis; they're identified as being capable warriors, yet their abilities and limitations seem fitted to classes that don't need to move around a lot, and that have fairly low HP but large shields. That's mainly spellcasters. The new bursty speed feature of ghoul leap helps a lot, but it's fiddly to use.Ghoul is a little different, I can't really think of a class they pair well with besides bulwark.
Well, that's an issue with Shaloren, not the other races ;P. I do think Shaloren need to be taken down a notch, as they bypass too many design limitations. I think races should be balanced around tier B-C in general, but an A here and there isn't a big deal (I like Cornacs being good, though I'm genetically partial towards humankind). All races should have at least one class where they're considered a one of the strongest combinations, a few more that they're good but not great in, and for the rest, you should still feel like the race gives you _something_, even if it's not as good as what others have.Their racials are actually pretty decent as racials go (good luck beating out the shalore master race).
Yeah, ghouls breathing is just strange. I can understand vampires needing to breath, but not ghouls. If it was an explicit part of the fluff (e.g. they had a racial ability called Residues of Life) I could get behind it, but now, just... no.Make it so ghouls don't have to breathe and maybe play around with a passive on their retch: "Your heal mod cannot drop below 80% + 10% per TL or something.
It really depends on your difficulty level. If you're playing normal with a high-XP-penalty race, you can absolutely win the game before hitting 50. Similarly, as you note, the first prodigy arrives much later for high-XP-penalty races. Nightmare is much the same.sajberhippien wrote:I've been playing on and off, and remember it mattering a lot before. Has the general amount of XP gained increased? I feel like before, I didn't have a prodigy until somewhere in the far east, but now I have them around Dreadfell.Micbran wrote:If you really wanted to buff them you could hit their XP penalty and pretend that does something.
Actually, I think it's pretty hard in Nightmare to not be 50 before last fight but it's hard in Normal to do it.visage wrote:It really depends on your difficulty level. If you're playing normal with a high-XP-penalty race, you can absolutely win the game before hitting 50. Similarly, as you note, the first prodigy arrives much later for high-XP-penalty races. Nightmare is much the same.sajberhippien wrote:I've been playing on and off, and remember it mattering a lot before. Has the general amount of XP gained increased? I feel like before, I didn't have a prodigy until somewhere in the far east, but now I have them around Dreadfell.Micbran wrote:If you really wanted to buff them you could hit their XP penalty and pretend that does something.
Insane and Madness, however, have very different level curves and you're going to have your first prodigy by The Master regardless of your penalty.
I've long thought it was silly that the different difficulty levels had completely different leveling curves and itemization, but that's how it is.
Wyrmic has been tier a this tier list is outdated it has necro and archmage in s tierQuidix wrote:Perhaps we should consider upgrading Wyrmic from Tier C?
https://te4.org/characters/172647/tome/ ... 1f8c4acc25