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[1.5.x] Class/Race Tier List
http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=42608
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Author:  HousePet [ Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [1.4.x] Class/Race Tier List

Solipsist has some decent healing and defense in the Feedback category.

Author:  bpat [ Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [1.4.x] Class/Race Tier List

I just checked the numbers on Resonant Field and Conversion and they're much higher than I thought. So they're alright but they have long cooldowns making them a little underwhelming. Also you can't be at the brink of death and still perform well because under 50% psi your global speed tanks. They have pretty average defense overall but they don't have the damage or control to make up for it.

Author:  jenx [ Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [1.4.x] Class/Race Tier List

Do you have to win on roguelike?

Author:  Pumpkinreaper [ Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [1.4.x] Class/Race Tier List

I think solipsists are pretty darn good, they don't have their damage frontloaded but can quickly unload multiple skills to murder things frighteningly fast. Also the solipsism threshold looks like it'd be a problem when it really isn't, since you'll have a dumb amount of psi to begin with and biofeedback basically acts as your main psi per turn generator. Mind you it does require more careful monitoring than any other classes resource, though the third solipsism passive helps with this quite a bit in letting you do more things in a turn than anything else, including popping infusions/heals. Their crowd control is fairly strong too, since it's on a fairly short cooldown and comes on multiple different flavours, buying you precious turns for skills to come off of cooldown and for psi to regen.


I also think yeeks should be a little higher, since their first racial is basically an emergency meatshield button/kill worm that walks button(or insert disliked elite here) that doesn't take any time to use. The second racial combined with their inherent confusion resist means they can get intrinsic confusion immunity without using gear at all. Their third racial doesn't even need to be explained, it's basically the first shaloren racial active all the time. The fourth racial is a great 1 point wonder, giving you an emergency meatshield/distraction, much like the thalore racial. Finally, I would say it's the one race where its exp modifier actually makes a huge difference, since it means builds come online sooner giving you more options.

Mind you, yeeks do have the downside of not being able to get thick skin and armour training as easily as other races, but its racials (inherent and otherwise) more than make up for it.

Author:  pizdabol [ Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [1.4.x] Class/Race Tier List

Huh, why is Reaver off of the S list, didn't some insane person beat madness with one :? ?

Author:  Sheila [ Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [1.4.x] Class/Race Tier List

pizdabol wrote:
Huh, why is Reaver off of the S list, didn't some insane person beat madness with one :? ?

That person's wins were deemed illegitimate after some research

Author:  pizdabol [ Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [1.4.x] Class/Race Tier List

Damn, that guy was like my hero, I feel so betrayed. Anyone care to elaborate in what way was his win illegitimate?

Author:  Sheila [ Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [1.4.x] Class/Race Tier List

pizdabol wrote:
Damn, that guy was like my hero, I feel so betrayed. Anyone care to elaborate in what way was his win illegitimate?

Always plays offline, has "unstoppable" on his achievement page from his archmage madness/roguelike winner, but that character has neither deaths nor the achievement on its page, he also doesn't delete his characters. Saves all escorts with all classes even on weak ones with bad builds, which is basically impossible on madness. Seems to get through madness in absolutely no time at all, even though madness is one hell of a time investment. He hung around chat for a while until we started doubting his stuff and then he poofed again for good, it'd be okay if he cheated if he didn't pretend he was legit lols.

And yeah, mex and me have been trying Reaver on insane and it's far from S tier even there, so there's no way :P

Author:  tabs [ Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [1.4.x] Class/Race Tier List

Another way of looking at it is that the evidence is circumstantial and/or based around the opinion of self-styled "elite" players re: the viability of Reaver. The poor guy was probably harassed constantly in chat so he decided, understandably, to bail.

Author:  Sheila [ Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [1.4.x] Class/Race Tier List

tabs wrote:
Another way of looking at it is that the evidence is circumstantial and/or based around the opinion of self-styled "elite" players re: the viability of Reaver. The poor guy was probably harassed constantly in chat so he decided, understandably, to bail.

There's nothing circumstantial about it, he was asked how he managed to do certain things or why they were such a way and he simply didn't have anything to back it up, nobody harassed him, he simply bailed because he had been found cheating :roll: he also did things such as talking about how good and helpful constitution was, in a difficulty were you take damage spikes of many thousands, he often gave bad advice and didn't really know what he was talking about. Playing offline all the time gives you free reign to just cheat, modify your character, and pretty much delete enemies before coming back online to send your data to the server. We all naturally get the offline flag from time to time, but being offline 99% of the time is suspicious.
https://puu.sh/rHKQ4.png
Here's all the evidence you need. If you try to bullshit or spread lies in chat you will often be called out, and that's good, because misinformation doesn't help anybody win.
And we don't call ourselves "elite", in fact most of us try to help others play better and make better decisions.
Our "opinions" are generally rooted in thousands of hours of play, wins across all difficulties, and a solid grasp on the overall balance of things. It's simply people like you that like to downplay the experience and time we've put into the game by using terms like elitist despectively.
This line of argument is getting really old and it doesn't even mean anything, so you should either find a new one, or get better at the game :wink:

Author:  Mankeli [ Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [1.4.x] Class/Race Tier List

tabs wrote:
Another way of looking at it is that the evidence is circumstantial and/or based around the opinion of self-styled "elite" players re: the viability of Reaver. The poor guy was probably harassed constantly in chat so he decided, understandably, to bail.
Did you read the post you were replying though? The "viability of Reaver" is actually only a small part of Sheila's post -as it should be since there are other more compelling pieces of evidence.

If someone makes an extraordinary claim then it is completely okay to ask how they managed the feat in question. Asking about it serves two separate functions: 1) If no reasonable response is given, then there is probably a reason to continue being doubtful and 2) If a reasonable response is given then it's a chance to learn something new!

To imply that a mod has lead some kind of a harassment campaign against someone just for fun and profit is pretty rich. I assure you there are no conspiracies here. Also I find it remarkable how the fact that someone knows something about something can be casually turned into an insult and ad hominem.

Author:  Mittsies [ Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [1.4.x] Class/Race Tier List

@Sheila: Not saying the rest of your post is erroneous, but please don't highlight the "This character may have been played while not online" flag as if it means something or is evidence.
It's not a "from time to time" thing, it's pretty much a guarantee on every single character past a certain point. Go look through the last 100 most recent Winners and you won't find a single one without that flag.

Author:  Sheila [ Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [1.4.x] Class/Race Tier List

Mittsies wrote:
@Sheila: Not saying the rest of your post is erroneous, but please don't highlight the "This character may have been played while not online" flag as if it means something or is evidence.
It's not a "from time to time" thing, it's pretty much a guarantee on every single character past a certain point. Go look through the last 100 most recent Winners and you won't find a single one without that flag.

Yes it can happen naturally but it's suspicious when it comes from a person clearing a difficulty that takes weeks at times in less than a couple days and is always offline, the fact that he has an achievement in his page but not on that character means he pretty much went offline to cheat through the run and just occasionally came back online to get the server to update the character after he was done. Not sure why any of this means anything to you though, no idea who you even are, but we know he's a cheater :P
Some people can try really hard not to get that flag, it's possible, but most people don't bother. shesh does for example, he has deleted a lv50 character just to not get that flag on it.

Author:  simongeorges [ Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [1.4.x] Class/Race Tier List

From what I gather, this (excellent) Tier List is relevant when you are considering everything unlocked.
Is there a similar list for people who are starting the game and, for example, don't have access to Wildfire, or to Tier 5 objects giving full power to the Class/Race?

Or are all class/race equivalent for the first 25 levels of the game in "Normal"?

Author:  ster [ Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [1.4.x] Class/Race Tier List

simongeorges wrote:
From what I gather, this (excellent) Tier List is relevant when you are considering everything unlocked.
Is there a similar list for people who are starting the game and, for example, don't have access to Wildfire, or to Tier 5 objects giving full power to the Class/Race?

Or are all class/race equivalent for the first 25 levels of the game in "Normal"?

The game was designed for Insane difficulty and everything applicable there also works on Normal.

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