ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Reworking superiority and combat veteran
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Author:  Cathbald [ Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Reworking superiority and combat veteran

Does anyone know what skills are in the superiority tree and did you ever unlock it?
Does anyone like combat veteran last talent and to a lesser extent the third?

Here is a proposition of "rework" (superiority is more of a scrap everything but the name).


Passive. Your superior mastery of weapons shines the longer the fight goes on. After hitting an enemy with 3 successive attack, each further attack reduce their armor by x and their physical resistance by y.

Clean hits
Passive. Your attacks have x% chance to inflict offbalance and an extra y physpower.

One against the world
Sustain. The threat of numerous enemies energise you. For each enemy in range x you gain y% global speed and z% chance to avoid damage entirely. Drain stamina.

Overwhelming force
Active. Big cd. You drop all restraint and overwhelm your enemy. Every consecutive hit reduce their global speed by x% and damage by y%. Last z turns. Every time you kill someone while this is active, refresh the duration. You lose all defense while this is active.

Technique/combat veteran

Quick recovery : keep as is
Fast metabolism : keep as is
Remove the other two

battle scars : years of combat have toughened your body, you gain x% chance to resist poison, bleed, and wound

juggernaut : bring back here since removed from superiority! But tweak numbers and make it passive

Hoping this sparks some discussion and even changes :)

Author:  Zeyphor [ Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Reworking superiority and combat veteran

why would you leave fast metabolism as-is?

Author:  Cathbald [ Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Reworking superiority and combat veteran

It's simple and useful early.
I thought about adding some heal mod but then it felt like a perma higher first racial.
Yes, there isn't much point to put it above 1/5 but it's not the only talent for which it is the case.

Author:  Davion Fuxa [ Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Reworking superiority and combat veteran

Fast Metabolism could always do something else, or it could be folded into Quick Recovery (or rather Quick Recovery could be folded into it).

I personally wouldn't mind seeing Unending Frenzy kept - just changed to be more useful. Maybe it could help reset cooldowns, or maybe it could play into specific class skills - such as triggering Relentless Fury on Berserkers without actually putting the talent on Cooldown (kind of like how Rampage works on Cursed), Archers could trigger Escape, Arcane Blades could cast Earthen Barrier, Sun Paladin's could put on a Suncloak, Wyrmics could let loose a Bellowing Roar, Shadow Blades could throw out Illuminate, and.... Bulwarks and Marauders could do something.

Author:  Cathbald [ Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Reworking superiority and combat veteran

Problem with unending frenzy is that it's an effect on kill which is... not helpful when you're in trouble. Effect on kill in general are hard to make worthwhile.
I feel like this tree is really about passive "quiet" buffs which pull their weight even if you're not noticing. Quick recovery is always overlooked for example, but 1-2 in it really help stam class.
Fast metabolism could scale of CON (i know some will HATE that idea ^^)

Author:  Davion Fuxa [ Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Reworking superiority and combat veteran

Kill on effects aren't 'deemed' to be useful, but that doesn't mean they are useless. They definitely also show their usefulness when you have situations that result in you having to kill a tonne of things with little possibility of retreating - Grush'nak's entrance and level switch overs for example. Technically kill of effects are still 'passive' benefits too, they are just linked to an action triggering them.

The bigger problem with Unending Frenzy is that a little gain on stamina isn't enough of a payoff to make it worthwhile to drop talent points into - especially for a capstone talent. Most Stamina based classes don't really worry about stamina as much these days either. If they did more it wouldn't be as bad.

Author:  HousePet [ Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Reworking superiority and combat veteran

I don't have much of an opinion on these categories/talents in general, but I'd like to add this:

Not every ability has to be able to get you out of a tight spot.
This usually comes up with damage negation talents with people expecting all of them to be able to stop one shots or they are useless.
However, all these other abilities which give partial protections, or life/resources on kill (or similar) actually help keep you from being in a tight spot in the first place.

So sure, Unending Frenzy doesn't give you stamina when you have run out. But how did you run out of stamina? Likely from using stamina to kill things...

Author:  Gustavo_Paranga [ Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Reworking superiority and combat veteran

I made a post of some rework on bad talents, both of these are there

Combat veteran:
Terrible talent for every class ever. The idea is recover stamina which it does terrible and increase spell save which is also not good. My idea for this talent:
-Quick recovery: perhaps the only useful one, not a terrible 1 point cost, in my opinion could receiving the bonus from unending frenzy and that's all.
-Fast Metabolism: useful only in early game, late becomes useless. My idea would be to it give you healmod instead, that way, would become useful in the endgame
-Spell Shield: don't have idea on this (Spell debuffs are the least harmful of the three, perhaps change to buff all saves would at least make useful to normal/nightmare)
-Unending frenzy: Just bad. For this one, I would love to see some cooldown reduction to techniques skills, but would make too op for a low level tree spread to a lot of classes. Maybe a active skill that doubles the cooldown reduction for x rounds?

I'm not really familiar with this tree but never see a single person using this tree except for juggernaut.
-Juggernaut: good skill, leave at this
-Onslaught: so you are a melee, and this skill thrown enemies away from you? Change this for an increase in movement speed and damage and be done with it
-Battle call: Fine against caster. Could come to a reduction in their damage but it's fine as it is
-Shattering impact: Don't know a thing on this one, but apparently makes your bump attack cost stamina. Maybe make something like incenarating blows from doombringer (some burst damage every now and then free of charge)?

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