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 Post subject: Reaver unlockable tree
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 6:17 am 
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Archmage

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:13 am
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The Reaver is pretty cool, but one of its problems is that it really doesn't have a lot to do with category points. If you get an Anorithil escort you obviously take Light, and maybe you unlock Curses for the damage boosting one, and you can always buy infusion slots, but, well, you don't have a whole lot of options.

Reavers already have plenty of damage options; they mostly want utility. Of course, it has to be Defiler-y utility. I figured it might look something like:

Cacaphony
Instant speed. Not a spell. On use, gives you a short-term (~5 turn) buff, which allows you to cast spells while silenced, at the cost of 20-10% HP per spell.

Shared Suffering
Activated. On use, for all negative effects currently afflicting the character, each enemy within a radius of (5-9?) has a (25-50?)% chance to receive a copy of that effect. Bypasses normal status effect immunities.

Debilitating Plague
Passive or sustain. Whenever an enemy takes damage from one of your diseases they have a (5-15)% chance to gain one of Blind, Silenced, or Confused for 2-3 turns.

Worm Rot
As the Worm That Walks ability. A disease that removes the removes a beneficial physical effect each turn it lasts, and which creates a Carrion Worm + does a big burst of damage if it lasts long enough without being cured.

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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 10:51 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:14 am
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Those sound pretty cool, especially the first and last.

Number 3 would probably be a passive, and number 2 seems like a situationally useful thing to have.


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 2:37 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:52 pm
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Hmmm, I like this, lemme see if I can make it more consistent with current ideas(For example, even Reaver physical skills are spells).

Corruption - Pestilence: L10 tree.

Inner Putridity: Sustain, low cost. Allows you to corrupt your own flesh and bone for use in your magic. Gain 20% Silence and 10% Pin/Wound resistance per level, as you learn to reconstruct your flesh and bone to be increasingly hard for enemies to disable.

Shared Suffering: Active, low cost, large cooldown. Has a (TL*15)% chance of applying any given status you are inflicted with on all enemies within (TL+2) range, with the usual save/status resistance check, for (TL/2)+3 turns, and at the same power it has. In addition, deal ((TL)*4)/(User's Current Life/User's Maximum Life)% of the target's Maximum in Blight damage.

(To be clearer; At cap, that's a 20% value. So, say, if you're at 1 HP, you will deal 20% of the target's Maximum life, to their current HP, in Blight damage. If you're at half life, 10%. If you are at full life, no damage.)

Pestilent Blight: Passive. Any Blight damage you deal over 2% of the target's life has a (TL*0.8 rounded up)% chance of Pinning, Silencing or Disarming the target for three turns, as their flesh rots away.

Worm Rot: See the suggestion, same idea.

This should make the tree more generalized(so it doesn't need diseases to be useful for Adventurers), fixes the issue where generally statuses don't ignore immunity(because that can be abused by crazy players who find ways to do that), and makes the talents all spells reasonably, while still maintaining their original roles.

This also sounds pretty fun to me. :)


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 10:06 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:14 am
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That second skill would synergize really well with Corrupter Shell(?) Too, I think. That's the one with the big boost to HP, right?

Overall, very flavorful in general.


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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 6:56 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 5:01 pm
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Phantomglider, sounds good on paper, but unless the third skill is a Sustain I think it might be a bit too powerful on an already powerful class. The last skill should also have a big Vim cost to prevent it from being a be all end all skill.


SageAcrin, Beautiful suggestions just like the OP had, but on my opinion these might break the class balance even more, especially Pestilent Blight, especially as a passive.

The issue of lacking utility trees is present, yes, but I fear any adds to Reaver class might render it even more Oozemancer'y, which ruins much of the fun. This said with no knowledge of possible (if any) 1.2 Reaver changes.

Off topic, but how about an add-on class that uses dual resources, Vim and Mana with shared costs, requiring you to have enough of both in order to use the skills.

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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 5:40 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:14 am
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Faeryan wrote:
How about an add-on class that uses dual resources, Vim and Mana with shared costs, requiring you to have enough of both in order to use the skills.


Start drawing it up.:)


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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 11:48 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:52 pm
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Faeryan wrote:
SageAcrin, Beautiful suggestions just like the OP had, but on my opinion these might break the class balance even more, especially Pestilent Blight, especially as a passive.

The issue of lacking utility trees is present, yes, but I fear any adds to Reaver class might render it even more Oozemancer'y, which ruins much of the fun. This said with no knowledge of possible (if any) 1.2 Reaver changes.


I think you might be surprised. The main power talent there is Pestulant Blight, and that's a fairly unreliable disabler. (Though quite solid.) Worm Rot's good too, but it's not incredibly synergistic, and the other two are just very fitting support skills that won't really alter a Reaver.

I'm not saying they won't up the power of the class-of course they will. But I don't think it'll really change the feel of the class, or render it capable of things it couldn't do before.


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 8:02 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 3:45 pm
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Agreed, they don't seem overly powerful to me, just useful. Perhaps the first talent could also give Blight Affinity? That gives it synergy with the Carrion Worm summoned by Worm Rot, similar to Worm that Walks.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:23 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
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Bump.

1.2.2 Reavers still have zero locked class trees, and Defilers in general don't seem to have any advanced trees.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:39 pm 
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Retired Ninja

Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 3756
Doctornull wrote:
Bump.

1.2.2 Reavers still have zero locked class trees, and Defilers in general don't seem to have any advanced trees.


Yarr. Was just thinking this two nights ago actually.

That said any tree that gets Worm Rot I would prefer to be very focused similar to how the Inner Demons tree is Nightmares. The spell is meant to be as much a function of the monsters physiology as it is magic. Some of the talent suggestions so far fit that bill and others don't.

Let me try real quick.

Corruption/Worm Rot
Infected Blood - Your blood has been infected by carrion worms. When you take X% of your hit points in damage you spawn a carrion worm mass. Gain X% resistance to acid and blight and X% blight affinity.
Worm Burst - Kills a nearby carrion worm mass, recovering vim and inflicting acid damage in a radius around it (also triggers the carrion worms blight on death map effect).
Pestilent Blight - Blight damage over 10% of the targets max life dealt by you or your worm masses has an X% chance of pinning, silencing, blinding, or disarming the target as it's flesh rots away.
Worm Rot - As is.

I'd like to see them get a second unlockable tree as well. We could continue on this theme of corrupting the body.

Corruption/Putrescence
Inner Putridity - Allows you to corrupt your own flesh and bone, making it harder for enemies to disable you. Gain 10% silence, stun, blindness, and pin immunity.
Putrescent Bolt - Deals X Blight damage and dazes the target.
Putrid Blood - Create a cloud of putrid blight around you when you take X% of your hit points in damage. This cloud has a 25% chance to daze creatures that breathe and inflicts X blight damage per turn.
Putrid Purge - Causes all dazed targets around you to become violently ill. Inflicts X blight and physical damage each turn and stuns. Lasts X turns.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:59 pm 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:12 am
Posts: 543
My own rough idea:
Corruption/Calcification
Splintering Strike - Active (moderate CD, high Vim cost to discourage spamming. Vim cost increases with charges restored?)
Attack with both weapons, for every hit that lands, 1-3 Bone Shield charges are restored. The recovery can put Bone Shield over its cap as long as it isn't already above it.

Grasping Ossuary - Active
Spend a Bone Shield charge to create a stationary skeleton that casts Bone Grab on a random enemy each turn

Cortical Shards - Passive/Sustain
Every turn Bone Shield absorbs damage, enemies within 1-3 spaces are inflicted with Bleed (Deep Wound healing reduction at TL3)

Bone Transplant - Sustain
Every turn, spends a Bone Shield charge to deal physical damage to an enemy in range 2-6 with a 20-50% chance to pin. Either increases Bone Shield max cap or reduces recharge delay


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:08 pm 
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Retired Ninja

Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 4:38 pm
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I like those ideas but we'd need to create a new precedent.

i.e. "You must know Bone Shield in order to learn this tree"

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:28 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:33 pm
Posts: 819
That Worm Rot tree looks great.
Three out of the four Putrescence talents are neutered against enemies with 100% stun immunity. I'd give it fewer stun-dependent effects.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:12 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
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Location: Ambush!
edge2054 wrote:
Corruption/Worm Rot
Infected Blood - Your blood has been infected by carrion worms. When you take X% of your hit points in damage you spawn a carrion worm mass. Gain X% resistance to acid and blight and X% blight affinity.
Worm Burst - Kills a nearby carrion worm mass, recovering vim and inflicting acid damage in a radius around it (also triggers the carrion worms blight on death map effect).
Pestilent Blight - Blight damage over 10% of the targets max life dealt by you or your worm masses has an X% chance of pinning, silencing, blinding, or disarming the target as it's flesh rots away.
Worm Rot - As is.
Hmm. Reavers already have Acid Blood, so maybe not a blood-modification talent. Maybe instead, they'd get an Armor of Worms. When the carrion worm mass spawns, it halves the damage you took.

Pestilent Blight is interesting, but I see it being best used when the Reaver's talents are being abused -- it'll trigger off of Dark Surprise just fine, but mostly it'll trigger off of Corrupted Strength's free attack, or off of Channel Staff (which is just wrong). I'd suggest making it Pestilent Blows, and have it just modify melee crits, so you're rewarded for being in melee like you should be. This version maintains synergy with Dark Surprise.

Otherwise looks good except for the name -- a talent and a tree with the same name is needlessly confusing -- so maybe call the tree Corruption / Wormwood :D


edge2054 wrote:
Corruption/Putrescence
Inner Putridity - Allows you to corrupt your own flesh and bone, making it harder for enemies to disable you. Gain 10% silence, stun, blindness, and pin immunity.
Putrescent Bolt - Deals X Blight damage and dazes the target.
Putrid Blood - Create a cloud of putrid blight around you when you take X% of your hit points in damage. This cloud has a 25% chance to daze creatures that breathe and inflicts X blight damage per turn.
Putrid Purge - Causes all dazed targets around you to become violently ill. Inflicts X blight and physical damage each turn and stuns. Lasts X turns.
Hmm. Daze has issues at high levels, and the Reaver doesn't have much Daze synergy with other talents.

I'd suggest doing stuff with diseases instead of Daze. Diseases are more widely supported and then the Reaver would get a choice between Catalepsy or the new talent.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:58 pm 
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Retired Ninja

Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 4:38 pm
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The first talent in the worm tree is a take on a worm that walks ability (they spawn worms if they take a hit dealing more than 10% of their life).

I hear you guys on the daze thing. My kids just love when I play a ghoul and use retch and I figured a tree based on puking would be fun. Putrid Bolt could reduce stun immunity when it hits.

Anyway I'm not really in love with the second tree. Just thought it could be fun to make monsters puke all over themselves and gag on your nasty blood. Daze felt like the best effect for that without having to add a new one.

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