Darkgod should play more stamina based classes

[Canderel]

Ermm... Ok, topic maybe a little off, but IMHO stamina should come from con, not wil, or maybe 50% con, 50% will.

Most stamina based classes will wear a fair amount of armour, upping the fatigue, and most will not increase wil, except until very late game, and even then... Why not then make it at least partly scale off con?

Just a thought...

[Grey]

Because it would make it too easy? Every stamina user invests in Con, so it would give them all an easy big source of stamina. At the moment if you want a decent pool then you have to sacrifice from elsewhere, and this is an important part of choosing your progression wisely.

I do think Will should give a bit more stamina than 2 per point though.

[tiger_eye]

Heh, I love the subject line

Con already seems to be a "go to" stat for many fighters and the like. I think it may be overkill to make it give or buff stamina, too. On the other hand, I think fighters/stamina-users ought to be more enticed to invest in Wil (I already do with my fighters, btw). This allows for more choices and variety in stamina-based builds, which I think is a very good thing.

Anyway, Wil would be more enticing to stamina users if it increased the stamina by a larger amount. It currently gives 2 stamina per Wil. Even having it give 2.5 stamina per Wil would be a major boost, imho.

Back to Canderel's suggestions, perhaps Wil and Con could also decrease the character's fatigue by a reasonable amount, so talents wouldn't use as much stamina. This would make Con useful w.r.t. stamina (but wouldn't give *more* stamina), as well as making Wil more attractive to stamina users.

[Grey]

On the other hand, I think fighters/stamina-users ought to be more enticed to invest in Wil (I already do with my fighters, btw). This allows for more choices and variety in stamina-based builds, which I think is a very good thing.

Well Anti-Magic does that a little. But yeah, there could be more in-built things. Maybe Will could give a little extra critical damage?

[Canderel]

Or wilpower can actually give a small HP amount per point...

[tiger_eye]

Cool, a lively discussion of suggestions!

I would much rather have Wil increase stamina by 2.5 or 3 per Wil. And that's it. If stamina-based players aren't enticed by that, then, well, they need to become better players

[Canderel]

Well fatigue reduction is an unexplored option.

My biggest issue, and also why I gave the title is that. Mages push magic and wil to an extent, and con. And often wil less than con.

Fighters needs tougher choices, str dex wil and con.
Beserkers aren't that affected and I guess str con wil is fine.
Rogues who want it especially early game has dex cun wil con
Archers are much better after relaxed shot was introduced, but before that?
Brawlers have str dex cun wil con.??

Regarding grey's comment about it'll be too easy... I don't think my archers didn't win because of stamina shortage. They just got hammered, but more stamina would open up a lot more options. I don't think extra stamina, even infinite would suddenly make archers and rogues top the list of most winners. It would just make their lives a little easier.

[Grey]

I more mean easy in terms of choices. I think doing more with Will could make it a more interesting choice, as opposed to taking away any choice since everyone uses Con anyway.

Another possibility is Will affecting the cooldowns of certain long cooldown techniques.

[TheRani]

Most of the stamina classes do have Combat Veteran tree available to them. Once I get Quick Recovery and Unending Frenzy maxed, stamina problems are rare for me unless I'm running too many sustains at once. I think it would be fantastic if Con reduced fatigue though.

[edge2054]

Having just played an archer I can say that relaxed shot really seemed to do the trick for my stamina concerns up through dreadfell without any talents in stamina regen (unfortunately I can't comment on anything further, got murdered by a master skeleton archer).

[lukep]

Archers are much better after relaxed shot was introduced, but before that?

Having just played an archer I can say that relaxed shot really seemed to do the trick for my stamina concerns up through dreadfell without any talents in stamina regen (unfortunately I can't comment on anything further, got murdered by a master skeleton archer).

I won with an archer, and barely needed to use Relaxed Shot, even through the final battle. It helped that my build focused on low Stamina talents (Bow Mastery, Aim and Steady Shot) though.

[Canderel]

Please elaborate on your experience as a rogue trapper. Especially ealry game.

Or a brawler... Before getting his stamina skills.

[edge2054]

Brawlers I intended to have stamina issues pre-stamina skills to encourage wearing light armor early game. Trapper rogues I've always had problems with but that may also be by design.

[lukep]

Please elaborate on your experience as a rogue trapper. Especially ealry game.

Or a brawler... Before getting his stamina skills.

I got a couple of rogue trappers to beat Prox (or Bill, back a few betas), but never really got one off the ground. The main problem I had in fights there was Stamina regen, as an extra 10 or 20 Stamina would only allow a couple more traps, which isn't enough to do a substantial amount of damage. Never got one very far past that.

I haven't played as a Brawler past level two or so. I didn't like giving up two of the most powerful equipment slots, and restricting a third one (in that it needed good damage).

Mostly, I was responding to:

Archers are much better after relaxed shot was introduced, but before that?

as well as showing that not all classes need it, but I didn't make that clear. Fixed now.

[Aquillion]

Most classes have to invest in a secondary, less useful stat to boost their resource pool -- this is true for most mana-users, too. The only exception are people with will-based skills, of course, and those tend to use somewhat different resource mechanics.

So I don't think con to stamina would be a good idea, no.

On the other hand, the current system is easy on any will-using caster/mage classes, like Temporal Wardens... but basically, con helps absolutely everyone, and I think it's better to arrange things so every stat is as useful as possible to as many people as possible. Overall, changing stamina from will to con would have the effect of allowing more people to totally ignore more stats, and I don't feel that that's good for the game.