Stamina and Constitution

[HousePet]

I wouldn't mind half from willpower and half from constitution.

Higher constitution allows you to fight longer.
Higher willpower lets you push yourself further.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

I wouldn't mind half from willpower and half from constitution.

Higher constitution allows you to fight longer.
Higher willpower lets you push yourself further.

^This.

[SageAcrin]

It used to be linked.

Anyone that used Stamina promptly never had resource issues again, under any circumstances, is the problem that I recall it having...

[azrael]

Just reduce the amount of Stamina per CON, then. It doesn't make sense for them to be entirely unlinked. Willpower is a mental stat, after all, and Stamina is a physical resource. Even just .25 or .5 Stamina per CON or something makes more sense than none at all.

[Strongpoint]

BTW, Why not reduce total amount of stamina gained? This will make stamina regenerating talents more important. After all one can invest 5 class points and get very nice stamina regeneration in 1.05

If that reduction is too bad, add stamina regeneration to regeneration infusion

[supermini]

I'm in two minds about this. While attaching stamina to con makes sense, it's easy to imagine a situation where you can run shattering impact/momentum/true grit without ever looking at a stamina bar. Maybe test it via a mod first and report the results?

[HousePet]

Looks like 3 regen per turn is what you would have with the new Quick Recovery talent.
So you would still be loosing stamina per turn with any talent use.
I haven't heard of it being possible to go with a high willpower build and run the stamina expensive stuff without watching your stamina bar, so I don't think changing some of it to be based on Constitution would cause any issues.
Even if it did, there are ways of balancing things that don't seem as logical as magic mana based on dexterity for example.

[supermini]

Please don't invoke "logic" in a fantasy game mechanics discussion.

As for huge stamina pool and momentum etc. I might just make a test build to see what's what. Marauder with mindstars, maybe.

[HousePet]

Please don't invoke "logic" in a fantasy game mechanics discussion.

Was just pointing out how weird it seems to balance something by tying the resource to a stat that isn't typically associated with fighters in general.

[Sirrocco]

If you don't think that warriors are associated with willpower, then you haven't been paying attention.

That having been said, I agree that it would be cool to let it have some influence... if only to give warriors additional reason to push con. As it is, it seems like they only need about as much as the wizard (everyone gets thick skin. After you've maxxed thick skin, what's the point of more?).

[supermini]

If you don't think that warriors are associated with willpower, then you haven't been paying attention.

That having been said, I agree that it would be cool to let it have some influence... if only to give warriors additional reason to push con. As it is, it seems like they only need about as much as the wizard (everyone gets thick skin. After you've maxxed thick skin, what's the point of more?).

You can qualify for thick skin with item bonuses. Con, as it is, is more worth to mages than warriors, and it's even less worth to a warrior if you play a race with a high life rating. As your hp from other sources goes up, the less total % of your hp is coming from con.

It's perfectly reasonable to completely drop con and get something else - cunning or willpower. This strategy is not without risk, however, because con hp is always worth it early when heroism infusions, shield runes and item hp bonuses are scarce. Hp from life rating also scales with your level... So all in all you are trading some early game security for a long term benefit.

[IAmTheCheese]

If you don't think that warriors are associated with willpower, then you haven't been paying attention.

That having been said, I agree that it would be cool to let it have some influence... if only to give warriors additional reason to push con. As it is, it seems like they only need about as much as the wizard (everyone gets thick skin. After you've maxxed thick skin, what's the point of more?).

You can qualify for thick skin with item bonuses. Con, as it is, is more worth to mages than warriors, and it's even less worth to a warrior if you play a race with a high life rating. As your hp from other sources goes up, the less total % of your hp is coming from con.

It's perfectly reasonable to completely drop con and get something else - cunning or willpower. This strategy is not without risk, however, because con hp is always worth it early when heroism infusions, shield runes and item hp bonuses are scarce. Hp from life rating also scales with your level... So all in all you are trading some early game security for a long term benefit.

Here's in idea to make Con useful to warriors:

Rather than give a static +4.00 to health per point of Con, how about making Con increase your health by a certain amount per level? Let's say keep the base +4.00 health to make it useful to lower level characters, but then add another 0.25 health/level to make it useful to higher level chars? So, at level 10 each point of Con would be worth (4.00 + 10*0.25) = 6.5 health, but at level 50 each point of Con would be worth (4.00 + 0.25*50) = 16.5 health?

Of course, you could use a higher or lower level multiplier than 0.25, but this might actually make Con useful at higher levels.

[parcel]

CON is useful to EVERYONE as-is. The mechanical logic is a reason to make stamina based on this kind of stat, but in general I favor mechanical balance where the player should have four desirable stats and have to make a careful choice about the relative weight of at least two of them.

[Doctornull]

IIRC there was a neat suggestion elsewhere about getting rid of Thick Skin and just making the provided resist all a facet of Con.

So at 60 Con, you'd have +15% resist all.

That would stop the cheese tactic of stacking +Con gear at level up just for the Talent bonus.

Another way would be to add Stamina regen to Con, so at 60 Con you're recovering +3.00 per turn. That's +0.06 Stamina/turn, per point of Con over 10.

That would keep Willpower relevant (since max Stamina is still good), but give you an alternative mechanism to survive long fights.

[The Revanchist]

IIRC there was a neat suggestion elsewhere about getting rid of Thick Skin and just making the provided resist all a facet of Con.

So at 60 Con, you'd have +15% resist all.

That would stop the cheese tactic of stacking +Con gear at level up just for the Talent bonus.

Stopping cheese tactics sounds good. Are we dead-set on capping at 15%? Moreover, is it a cap, or do values above 60 Constitution give values higher than 15% All-resist?

Another way would be to add Stamina regen to Con, so at 60 Con you're recovering +3.00 per turn. That's +0.06 Stamina/turn, per point of Con over 10.

That would keep Willpower relevant (since max Stamina is still good), but give you an alternative mechanism to survive long fights.

Having Constitution regenerate and Willpower increase the maximum sounds much more fitting, especially going by Housepet's logic.