ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:29 am 
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Thalore

Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:29 am
Posts: 188
No mention of the character deleting bug I found. Sadness. T_T


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:33 am 
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Halfling

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:48 pm
Posts: 114
Is this a bug or a challenge? Skeleton Possesor

Edit: Perhaps not, anytime I see antimagic in a skill I don't expect undead to be playable.

It should be noted that "Shields" don't seem to show over possessed bodies.


Last edited by Relic on Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:05 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:02 am
Posts: 703
Healing Infusion is grayed out when I'm in another body and I don't know why.
Edit: checked to make sure you can select a particular copy to discard instead of all copies of a body and ... you can! Excellent.

I see that Mobility has been removed from the Sun Paladin. It should probably be removed from Worldly Knowledge, too, for consistency.

Try not to double post if you don't need to, need to keep the thread tidy :)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:37 am 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:46 pm
Posts: 239
Liking a lot of these changes, but I wish more had been done to balance the prodigies, as some of them seem to be so much better than some of the others, with a handful that people recommend for almost any character. PES in particular seems to be the most recommended character, and arcane combat is so strong I've heard of people investing in magic with characters who have no other use for the stat just for it.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:17 am 
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Halfling

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:48 pm
Posts: 114
If possessed bodies can't be healed, why does the snow giant body get infusion:regeneration as a skill?

It allows the triggering of the regen infusions but has no effect other than getting a CD on it.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:59 am 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 492
Parcae2 wrote:

I see that Mobility has been removed from the Sun Paladin. It should probably be removed from Worldly Knowledge, too, for consistency.
]

Is trained reactions seriously worth an entire prodigy and not using heavy armor?

Number43 wrote:
Liking a lot of these changes, but I wish more had been done to balance the prodigies, as some of them seem to be so much better than some of the others, with a handful that people recommend for almost any character. PES in particular seems to be the most recommended character, and arcane combat is so strong I've heard of people investing in magic with characters who have no other use for the stat just for it.
PES actually isn't that good except on the few classes that do non-str weapon damage, which currently is only marksman\TW\mindslayer\other mindstar melee\maybe rogue but i don't think daggers are worth using. AM OP but it's not the only reason i would invest in magic given that every single character gets access to Light. Bpat tried to rebalance prodigies a while ago but it got mostly ignored despite his ideas being good and most of the prodigies being useless (like who would ever take rak'shor's cunning or roll with it, ever)

darkgod wrote:
possessor nerfs

One whole day before they got the oozemancer treatment lmao, you could have at least waited until the madness wins started coming! i guess bodies are now a ridiculously point-costly supplement to normal combat since those aren't surviving high diff for long


e: why isn't my online profile registering i downloaded new beta and it's telling me possessors addon has an invalid hash

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:41 am 
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Low Yeek

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:28 am
Posts: 5
I'll go ahead and offer my thoughts after playing around with the 1.5 beta for a while tonight I guess.

First of all, I love Possessor, however I hate the mechanics of how the class works. To me personally, it feels like a bunch of big numbers tossed onto an unstable pile of mechanics. You have three trees for damage, one that wants dual mindstars, one that wants a 1H + mindstar, and one that wants 2H, which is fine and dandy. We've seen before that classes can do that perfectly well (Mindslayer as an example). The issue here is that unlike Mindslayer, you end up having split stats for what you want to do. Possessor ends up wanting Willpower and Cunning for sure, and adding a 1H or 2H weapon in makes them want strength as well, otherwise your skill damage will fall horrendously behind since it is based off of weapon damage. My simple suggestion for this would be to add a tree of some kind that gives them a similar mechanic to Beyond the Flesh; making their weapons have requirements based on Willpower and Cunning instead if it would be more advantageous that way. Or even better, allow mindstars to also count as 1H weapons, since that's what they *are* technically, then we could at least choose between Battle Psionics and Psionic Menace *or* Psychic Blows, which is easily the better of the three trees since Force Shield is amazing at 5/5. Which leads into my second biggest issue with Possessor as a whole...

Solipsism does not fit the class thematically or mechanically, and you're stuck with no locked generic categories or even a place for build diversity other than what damage tree you want. I feel that this makes Possessor super one-dimensional as a result. We could definitely use another locked category of some kind, preferably a unique generic category as well, since currently the progression for leveling up seems to be dumping a category point into Possession at level 10 so you can steal the bodies of boss monsters. Your next two points inevitably go into your two locked generic trees simply because there is no alternative aside from the antimagic route of getting Fungus. There is little to no diversity or choice here I feel.

My biggest gripe with Possessors is definitely the stat spread of inevitably wanting Strength, Willpower and Cunning though, without the huge payout that other triple stat classes want, such as Arcane Blade (the highest damage class in the game to my knowledge). Also, Possession is a huge damage nuke, being well over 100 damage at level 2, except we cant use it on the monsters we want the most. I'd love to see an option when we target a monster with Possession to allow us to not store the body afterwards, making it so we can target bosses with our biggest damage skill without having to put a cat point into the tree as a whole :L


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:12 am 
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Cornac

Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:31 pm
Posts: 41
Quote:
e: why isn't my online profile registering i downloaded new beta and it's telling me possessors addon has an invalid hash


Same here, probably intended due to the untested nature of beta.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:17 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 3:45 pm
Posts: 875
Frumple wrote:
Heh. Kinda' sounds like marksmen took a bit of a hammer, but went back to never running out of stamina ever. Need to see about giving that a try soon as it finishes the dl, ehehe.


The nerfs weren't quite as big as they seem - it was mostly that optimized Archers with either Rapid Shot or Aim could output a lot of damage. Not quite Gunslinger, but far more than old Archers - but now with a lot more utility. Aim and Rapid Shot were two of their big scalars so I just tweaked them down by a few %. Likewise, the stamina on First Blood is about 10-15% higher, as the new Trained Reactions means that Archer might actually have stamina problems. So definitely need feedback once people start using Trained Reactions to see if they have too much or too little stamina. And to see how good the all-new Sniper (vs the addon) turns out.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:39 am 
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Wayist

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:18 pm
Posts: 28
I'm testing Shadowblade and Marauder. Can fatigue go below 0? I've tried to max Light armor but after a couple of points the stamina requirements for skills remained the same. Unstoppable requires 120 stamina, which is the same amount an old char with I can carry the world required.

If you can't go below 0, this is a change that should definitely happen as stamina management would be a great selling point for light armor, as well as something to build around for some classes.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:54 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 3:45 pm
Posts: 875
Fatigue can't go below 0. At 5/5, Light Armor Training is enough to reduce the fatigue of a full set of T5 light armor to 0. Primarily the benefit is the increased Defense, combined with things like Trained Reactions (Shadowblade might find light armor a little underwhelming at the moment, I'm looking into a potential fix).


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:04 am 
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Wayist

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:18 pm
Posts: 28
Razakai wrote:
Fatigue can't go below 0. At 5/5, Light Armor Training is enough to reduce the fatigue of a full set of T5 light armor to 0. Primarily the benefit is the increased Defense, combined with things like Trained Reactions (Shadowblade might find light armor a little underwhelming at the moment, I'm looking into a potential fix).


Marauder can burn stamina pretty fast and considering unstoppable is the main defensive talent of the class, I was thinking a light armor, low fatigue build, combined with the new duelist tree could have worked well :D


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:12 am 
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Low Yeek

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:28 am
Posts: 5
Another thing I've noticed playing Possessor for a while longer now. They have some absurd psi costs in relation to how they get psi in the first place, and more importantly, the skills that do generate psi have a psi cost :> There is zero reason why a skill that is a gap closer with psi regen attached to it should also cost enough psi to invalidate the regen in the first place. When you compare that to say, Oozemancer for instance, they have Mucus which completely solves resource issues, is instant and has no equilibrium cost applied to it. I dunno, the class seems super fun, but it feels clunky as a whole. The body stealing system is amazing, but everything else seems like it was only taken 75% of the way :L Solipsism is an amazing way to regain psi late in the game, but early game they have next to no psi management at all. Solipsist fixed this issue by having low costs on the most spammable abilities; such as the entire Distortion tree. Possessor just doesn't have that and most damaging skills easily take 15-20 psi per use for less return. I am fine with being pushed into using bodies, but when they cannot be healed until later on past level 20, trying to play caster in the meantime to get through the early game is way too painful. This is just my opinion and how I feel about it though, so don't take it too harshly, I'm being super critical because it's a beta :D


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:21 am 
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Master of Eyal

Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 9:26 pm
Posts: 10438
Location: Angolwen
Shaidyn wrote:
No mention of the character deleting bug I found. Sadness. T_T

??

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:25 am 
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Yeek

Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:10 am
Posts: 11
Probably a bug: Item granted invoke tentacle with a cooldown of 1, making it spammable every turn. I guess the +cooldown affix didn't spawn?

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