ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

The old forum guide list is horribly outdated so I decided to make a new one on my , which I intend to keep up to date. I believe all the guides listed to be of high quality and the tier list to be reasonably accurate. If you believe something should be added or removed, or the tier list should be modified, please let me know but make a compelling case for it because there are many guides I intentionally excluded.

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, which contains a guide and resource compilation and class tier list.

Props to you bpat if you can keep this up to date. I'm not sure what you may be looking for but here are some considerations to look into:

Competing Guides:

Obvious of these guys is my competing . However, outside of this there are likely some other guides that may compete with what you have currently.

Video Guides:

Remember belmarduk? While back he made the beginner's guide videos. I've also of course created the . While these video series are both a little old at this point, they still serve as very useful resources for picking up tips on how to play the game.

Steam Guides:

While perhaps not the great repository of information, there is still some useful tidbits to pick up from the section for the game.

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Its amazing what the mind can come up with, but it shows talent to make something of it. - Davion Fuxa
Steam Guide
YouTube Playlist

Thanks for including my guide! I needed an ego boost.

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A little bit of a starters guide written by yours truly .

Thank you for putting in the work to keep things consolidated, bpat! Got you bookmarked.

Who're you calling a weeb?
I'll fight you bpats!

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"As dying is one of the leading causes of death, you should avoid dying." -rekenner

"I'll bond with a cactus until my buttcheeks touch the sand before I play nethack again" -Gagarin

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, which contains a guide and resource compilation and class tier list.

I always thought that the was sort of interesting; good for telling you about how you can use a seemingly less useful skill in more useful ways and to keep that in mind when considering other talents.

I smirked a bit when watching the video in the Steam Guide. If you are looking for a video guide that isn't hours long like mine or belmarduks then this is the guide for you! 11 minutes long and packed full of the most basic things you need to know; this is perhaps a good video for someone with absolutely no prior knowledge of the game - though notably information about just about any other game (rogue-like or not) in existence.

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Its amazing what the mind can come up with, but it shows talent to make something of it. - Davion Fuxa
Steam Guide
YouTube Playlist

This looks great!

My suggestion is to split the "List of helpful guides" into two - a list of general helpful guides and a list of class guides. I'd also include the link to the old forum guide at the end of the list of class guides, with a note saying that there's a lot more class guides available there, but reader beware that they're outdated. IMO, even the outdated guides can often be a bit of help, when you're completely new to a class.

As for the tier list, overall, I think it looks good. I do think the Sawbutcher is top tier, though - doesn't everyone agree that he's OP? Also, I think you rated the alchemist too lowly - he's not amazing, but he's decent enough, and I think the fact that he's so beginner friendly as he is alone would bump him up a tier or two.
Speaking of that, maybe ranking classes by how accessible or beginner friendly they are would be helpful too? I'm sure a lot of us look at class guides sometimes, but I'm also sure that newer players are going to be the ones that use them the most. Perhaps either sort them like you do now, but add a beginner friendly rating in parenthesis, or sort them by beginner friendliness, and add their power tier in parenthesis?

EDIT: Also, if you don't split the list of helpful guides into two, I'd definitely put tometips at the top of it. IMO it's the most useful tool of all, and definitely the resource I use the most by far.

Looks like useful compilation of guides, nice work bpat. I like how Sheilas guides breaks the serious and gloomy atmosphere of ToME though . However the solipsist guide looks weird and it says that its mandatory to get a full set of items from the vault beside other cheesy stuff. I would reconsider adding it to the list personally.
I thought about writing a weapon focused Bulwark guide that completely ignores block mechanic but decided against it since it doesnt give the "feel" of a sword and board class and treats the class as a weaker version of other classes. If you feel like the class needs an alternative guide I may try to write one. Still I think the current guide is better than you give it credit for.
If you can really keep this up to date it should really get a sticky. Cheers!

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posetcay, the guy who only plays Doombringer

My solipsist guide on the wiki still works for 1.4.9 btw. very different approach to the one you list.

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MADNESS rocks

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, which contains a guide and resource compilation and class tier list.

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MADNESS rocks

If you want continue debating Sawbutcher's place on the tier list, we should probably move that to the thread. My ending thoughts are that to be in tier S, Sawbutcher has to be better than Temporal Warden and close Arcane Blade in power, and it fits neither of these. Temporal Warden wins in damage, mobility, and probably defense and it's ranged too. Sawbutcher's To The Arms and Spinal Break are the only things it has going for it compared to Temporal Warden and they aren't enough to win out, especially when Sawbutcher has no stun, no status cleanse/prevention, no teleports, and no healing or shields. Tempest of Metal and Grinding Shield are great and all but they aren't even as good as Webs of Fate and Time Shield. Then even if Sawbutcher is as good as Temporal Warden, Arcane Blade, the lowest tier S class, beats Sawbutcher in literally everything aside from silence and manaburn being annoying, by a lot, so that isn't even close.

For beginner classes, aside from Berserker being the best class available from the start, it really varies person to person. I found Alchemist to be unplayable as a beginner, but I had a lot of success with Arcane Blade and Necromancer in comparison, which is the opposite of many peoples' experiences. So I still think it's too hard to judge.

I'll reconsider the organization of the list, but I don't think I'll make any changes yet.

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, which contains a guide and resource compilation and class tier list.