ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal
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Auto-generated ToME spoilers
http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=40971
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Author:  Castler [ Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:24 am ]
Post subject:  Auto-generated ToME spoilers

I started working a while ago on auto-generating some spoilers for ToME, either as a supplement to the wiki or as an easier way of updating the wiki.

I finally finished the talents: http://tometips.github.io

Hopefully this will be useful to people. I've found it to be a handy resource in my own games.

The next question: What should be done from here? Is this way of displaying and formatting talents useful? Are there improvements that could be made?

Is there room for a site like this to exist alongside the wiki, or should the content be added to the wiki and the site shut down? Is there a way to get the wiki to do stuff like expand / collapse or tooltips on mouse hover?

If I keep working on autogenerating spoilers, what should I add next? Classes? Artifacts? Add-ons? More details on talents?

In case anyone's interested, the source code for generating the spoilers is at https://github.com/tometips/tometips.

Author:  Doctornull [ Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Auto-generated ToME spoilers

Neat!

The slide-down is very cool looking but makes the page kind of a pain to search. Maybe put the talent pictures on the right, aligned to occupy the otherwise empty space across from the requirements and costs info? Also have a way to expand everything on the page -- maybe a toggle somewhere so I can set the whole page to auto-expand if I'm searching for something.

Do classes next. Then do my add-ons :)


EDIT: also cool would be if you had a way to allow people to edit the inputs to those formulae, like changing the spellpower / mastery / damage type +% bonus etc. if they wanted.

Author:  kyuubee [ Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Auto-generated ToME spoilers

oh, that's a great site, very useful

Author:  darkgod [ Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Auto-generated ToME spoilers

Woh this is awesome, you even have a tooltip saying what increases what .. I'm rather impressed!
By all means do more: classes, races, npcs, objects, zones are all cool candidates :)

Oh, some talents should be excluded though, most base ones are more like internal markers.
The inscriptions are internally 6-plicated, you should only show one though, they are identical.
Maybe you can add an index that lists all talents with a searchbox for quick find?
I agree with the "deploy whole category" idea too.

As for wiki or not; it would be cool if it could automatically update the wiki, but this sounds hard and annoying.
Maybe this can be integrated on te4.org directly though. And if I manage to make my ingame browser thingie work for 1.2.0 then this could directly be accessible ingame too, even from the main menu :)

Author:  Faeryan [ Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Auto-generated ToME spoilers

Looks fricken sweet. A while ago I toyed with the idea of some spreadsheet you could list talent trees according to stat they use.
With a presentation like this on the site the only feature I would miss is listing trees in the order of used stat.

Author:  kyuubee [ Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Auto-generated ToME spoilers

btw, it fetched some stuff which is not in the game like this http://tometips.github.io/#talents/chro ... al-archery

Author:  Castler [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Auto-generated ToME spoilers

Thank you, everyone, for the feedback.

I'll see about adding an expand all / collapse all option and fixing the talents mentioned. (I hadn't decided if the internal and inaccessible talents were a bug or a feature - I think it's interesting to see how ToME works and what ideas have been kicked around - but the consensus is to remove them, and they really don't belong in a spoilers web site, so I'll fix that.)

Letting people edit the inputs to the formulas would be harder. Right now, I'm able to run T-Engine code to generate the web site offline, then upload the results. On-the-fly editing gets more complicated, but it may be doable.

Doctornull, I can try putting the pictures on the right, although I'm afraid it may make it harder to visually scan. I'm not clear on how that would make searching easier?

Author:  Doctornull [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Auto-generated ToME spoilers

Castler wrote:
Letting people edit the inputs to the formulas would be harder. Right now, I'm able to run T-Engine code to generate the web site offline, then upload the results. On-the-fly editing gets more complicated, but it may be doable.
Maybe do talent level 1 at power 20, 2 at 40, etc. up to 5 at 100?

Castler wrote:
Doctornull, I can try putting the pictures on the right, although I'm afraid it may make it harder to visually scan. I'm not clear on how that would make searching easier?
More stuff fits on one page, so scanning it is easier.

Text search is enhanced by starting up with all the dropdowns open; visual search is enhanced by condensing relevant information vertically.

Author:  Castler [ Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Auto-generated ToME spoilers

Recent updates:

  • Better handling of talent effects that depend on stats instead of talent levels. Effects that depend on stats only are blue; effects that depend on talent level only are green; effects that depend on both are teal. I'm not much of a graphic designer and am open to suggestions on a better color scheme.
  • Expand All and Collapse All buttons on the top right, as requested
  • "View Source" link for each talent. (Hopefully I'm not the only person who goes source diving enough to find this useful. :-) )
  • Various fixes (hide duplicated or unavailable talents, fix a few talents' display, improve page navigation, etc.)

Other updates will come (hopefully a search feature, maybe an alternate layout as requested, hopefully classes / races / addons), but it may be a few weeks; life is busy. I also need to get back to work on Qi Daozei one of these days...

Author:  hellruler [ Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Auto-generated ToME spoilers

Haven't been digging the code lately, but could you search for the ratios of skills? Like "skill X uses Spellpower * 3 + talent level" to make theorycrafting easier :D

Author:  Castler [ Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Auto-generated ToME spoilers

hellruler wrote:
Haven't been digging the code lately, but could you search for the ratios of skills? Like "skill X uses Spellpower * 3 + talent level" to make theorycrafting easier :D


I'm not sure how easily I could do that. The actual damage formulas are kind of complicated and aren't easy to automatically extract.

If I do come up with anything, I'll try and implement it.

Author:  Castler [ Tue May 20, 2014 2:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Auto-generated ToME spoilers (updated for 1.2.0 dev)

Recent updates:

  • Updated for 1.2.0 dev. You can switch between 1.1.5 and 1.2.0 dev using the dropdown in the top right. ToME Tips are periodically synchronized from Git and may not exactly match the latest 1.2.0 test release.
  • A complete list of added, removed, and changed talents in 1.2.0 dev. There are a ton; Darkgod and the other devs have done an awesome job.
  • Smaller default icons, and configurable icon sizes (click the gear in the top right), to partially address Doctornull's request to fit more information on the screen.
  • Talent requirements. Currently only the requirements for level 1 are shown.

Author:  Doctornull [ Tue May 20, 2014 2:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Auto-generated ToME spoilers (updated for 1.2.0 dev)

Awesome, I really like being able to browse 1.2 talents. Question, though: a quick look shows Healing Light listed as "Changed", but I don't see any difference between "Old" and "New". Are you maybe picking up on a change in whitespace or comments?

Ooo, ooo, an idea for improvement which might be easy: List artifacts and egos which lower the cooldown for a talent, under that talent.

Author:  grayswandir [ Tue May 20, 2014 2:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Auto-generated ToME spoilers (updated for 1.2.0 dev)

shines on -> shines upon

Author:  darkgod [ Tue May 20, 2014 7:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Auto-generated ToME spoilers (updated for 1.2.0 dev)

Ohhhhh very nice that compare !

BTW Castler, why are you not taking residence in #tome on irc.rizon.net ? :)

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