Playtesters needed! (1.3 Chronomancers)

[edge2054]

Yeah, I haven't really been promoting people playtest on that branch because of that. When egos and monsters start changing things can get funky.

[Wayward]

I like these changes. Haven't uncovered any timeymancer bugs. I really like how well most of the new skills can synergize with or play off of each other, especially with the time fight guy.

I would like a way to be able to end 'See The Threads' early. Like, "Okay, everything went great in timeline A, I am pleased with this outcome, we don't need to load up the next two." Right-click-canceling the buff seems to return you to the point of casting, 20+ turns later.

I think Time Stop works fine as-is, and I can imagine some situation where you are unable to effect the rest of the world while it's stopped. Maybe it could be re-named to something different to make its role more clear, so people don't feel disappointed that they can't nuke during it? 'Withdraw from time' or something?

Also, Mindslayers appear to have been broken in the 1.3 test. Brain-wielded weapons will not auto-attack. Yes, I turned on the sustain.

[Razakai]

Just starting High Peak on Nightmare. When I finish it I'll post a writeup of the One True Build of BOWDOGS.

Sorry edge, this shit is like, pre-nerf oozemancer crazy. But I'll hold off on telling you what until I win as you nerf all my cool stuff (RIP Gravity Sniper).

[edge2054]

haha.. yeah, I'm putting friendly fire back on a lot of things

[Thasero]

For the targeting on Singularity Arrow, the Corruptor's Darkfire works the same way, so you can copy the targeter from that.

[Thasero]

Right now TW damage feels pretty high, removing the magic to strength conversion is something I'm considering as a balance measure. But breaking it off into a talent on its own I don't see happening. I'm trying to move away from plus stat talents as part of a general design philosophy to look for more interesting solutions. On top of that, I don't know where I'd put it.

I think that a Warden's ability to switch between blades, bows, and spells is already interesting enough by itself, and a talent that makes that work out in stat terms is pulling its weight. Besides which - how is replacing STR with MAG in calculations interesting, while a +STR bonus is not? It might be more interesting for the developer to code a special case into the combat functions than to write a talent that follows pre-existing rules with a straightforward buff, but the latter isn't worse in design terms.

Also, I know where you could put it: Replace the effect of Weapon Folding. Weapon Manifold duplicates the job of giving bonus magical damage when you hit an enemy, and I'd say that Weapon Folding is overshadowed as a skill because of that - Weapon Manifold grants area-of-effect damage that also inflicts debuffs.

Given that Weapon Folding is already a sustain that gives a simple mathematical bonus to the damage of your melee and bow attacks based on your Spellpower, it would basically be a lateral move to implement the mathematical bonus as better stats instead of an on-hit effect.

I'd like to keep a stat bonus around because it helps avoid the boring problem of stats spread thin: You realize you need to choose between having enough stats for your next talent unlock and being able to equip an awesome lucky drop. Finding a great artifact for your class and NOT equipping it is the opposite of the fun part of ToME. For most classes, stat requirements just prevent you from getting away with ridiculous character builds, but Wardens genuinely need stats in a lot of different places in order to keep up with requirements for their different equipment and talents.

[Razakai]

Ok so absolutely nothing in Room of Death or Prides threatened me, so I might as well write up some detail about bowdogs now cause I can't see High Peak being anything other than a faceroll. I'll just break it down by tree cause that's easier for me. Note this is all Nightmare difficulty, no item vault but thanks to See the Threads I'm rolling with pretty much best in slot gear:

Blade Threading - Fine I guess? I only took 2 points in Warp Blade for early on and didn't really need it late game except to whack the occasional thing that got into melee range. Not a focus of this build.

Bow Threading - Threaded Arrow is good. Decent damage, primary paradox mechanic, fine. Arrow Stitching hits like a nuclear freight train but I see that's getting nerfed so that's fine. I'd prob balance the scaling so it's not so shit at lower levels though cause right now its 4 or nothing. Singularity Arrow is good, solid AoE. Arrow Echoes is decent but seeing as I had 250% bow speed I didn't notice it that much, but think it's fine.

Guardian - I think I agree about the str/mag conversion. TW damage is real high. Guardian Unity is too good, should prob be a sustain too. In NM it procs off like, every attack so it's like passive 50% resist all. Warden's Focus is ok I guess, already had plenty of accuracy so wasn't worth the turn really. But Vigilance makes it good cause you can get another 30% resistall via marking a weaker mob. The debuff removal is pretty nice, its good but the number of trash debuffs means it's not too overpowered.

Temporal Combat - Fine. All the talents are good, Manifold is great fun. Didn't use Breach much though.

Speed Control - Fine, but Haste feels kinda weak for the short duration/cooldown.

Temporal Hounds - Dogs are great. Tanky as hell, deal about 600 DPT default so they can eat up trash mobs with ease. Blink makes them chew through rares easily, and they clog up tiles and block projectiles thanks to vigour making them nigh-unkillable for many turns. Breath is a little underwhelming dmg-wise compared to your shots though and the debuff isn't very noticeable, but it's neat anyway.

Chronomancy - Fine. Good all around, especially with Contingency Time Shield/Shielding Rune.

Fate Weaving - Worth it just for Webs of Fate. The Spin Fate buff doesn't feel that noticeable but it's ok. Seal Fate is fun cause of the sheer # of debuffs you get via Manifold etc.

Spacetime Weaving - Great, no need for changes here. Dimstep removing debuffs is a very core thing.

Didn't play with Stasis/Threaded Combat yet on TW.

Epoch's Curve is way too good, I saw the nerfs in new branch so that's fine.

TW damage is absurdly high. Killed both of Rotting Titan's lives in 4 turns, most bosses last barely 2-3 turns. Killed that Charred Scar boss in under 2 turns. On target dummies I was doing about 5000 DPT. Combined with the crazy defence from GU/Contingency/debuff removal etc and absolutely nothing is threatening. Well, I did have to use Blood of Life once but that was from my own Inner Demon 1shotting me with Arrow Stitching. I guess one weakness of theirs would be high phys/temporal resist mobs but they're very rare. Could prob do with a couple more phys/temporal egos.

Speaking of egos, there's a bunch of light/dark anorithil themed ones. Might be worth remaking em into light/dark/temporal/phys in some cases. Maybe some phys egos could become phys/temporal, 'shearing' sounds like a good candidate for a mixed ego.

As for artifacts, I don't think we need any more bows/quivers at T5, but a T4 temporal artifact bow might be good. Maybe a T3 quiver too, cause there's loads of T4/5 ones. Temporal themed light armor too at T4/5? A new belt at T5 would be nice too, and maybe an arcane lite if you can think of a suitable one. Helms are another area that feels lacking, Dragonskull Helm is bad and overlaps alot with the decent-ish Crown of Elements. Again, overlapping them with other elements would be good - temporal can go with dark/arcane (void) or physical (warp/matter/shearing), or 'star' for all 4. Maybe even some nature/temporal ones for the Erosion theme.

To summarize, TW are a real fun class, best I've played so far. Don't go overboard nerfing em cause, but they definitely need tweaking.

[edge2054]

Thanks for the detailed feedback Razaki.

Guardian Unity I'm considering making a sustain and putting a cooldown on, like contingency (but much lower, probably 10). I don't want to play with the proc values because it needs to be effective on lower difficulties too.

Singularity Arrow I'm going to set at three arrows and let the scaling pay off the clone damage penalty some like Warden's Call does.

Thasero, I hear what you're saying. That said I don't believe +Strength belongs on Weapon Folding thematically unless it only applied to weapons. If Weapon Folding is to weak it can be changed up.

I'll drop the Magic > Physical Power/Weapon Damage on Strength of Purpose.

[IejirIsk]

Just hoping you aren't turning the cloth/leather armour wardens into tissue paper with the nerfs .

Maybe i'll try another run with them, see how threaded combat looks now. (and does that mean its impossible to get fortress now, since everything is going to sustain?

and, with those of us not focusing on pure bow, how is the paradox looking? or should i just set dox =0?

edit: when did spin go back to getting hit?
edit2: Is celerity supposed to proc off of dstep?
edit3: Umm.. warpblade can brain lock if it does confuse? kinda nifty.
edit4:invigorate + contingency dont mix either? assuming that's intentional.
edit5: Aww... exotics dont fall under SoP

[edge2054]

NPCs and Equipment are updated, also did some balance tweaks on a lot of talents.

The current branch is chrono_wrap_up.



@IejirIsk

Fortress should be fine. Guardian Unity is the only new sustain.

Paradox on Wardens has felt to easy if anything.

Spin has been on hit for this whole time. I want the player to be able to determine when it falls off mobs so they can still hit.
Yeah on Celerity. It's whenever you move, even from knockback.
Yeah, warp effects apply cross tier effects.
Intentional.
hehe.. no

[Razakai]

So both Ata and Lina died horribly to my TW. The sorcerers are barely even worth mentioning, Elandar died in about 5 turns. Lina does have the dubious honor of being the only mob to proc cauterize, as I engaged her final form while forgetting to press heroism.

Probably good TW is getting nerfed!

[nogglebeak]

as TW with 3 in the slow aura, I kept getting a lua error on a sling using rare that popped up, i'd close it, it would get a free attack, repeat til dead. (happened twice.) So I respawned elsewhere and went to a different dungeon where a bug with a different rare just spammed a similar lua error until I had to hardkill the program. Couldn't escape it.

[twas Brillig]

as TW with 3 in the slow aura, I kept getting a lua error on a sling using rare that popped up, i'd close it, it would get a free attack, repeat til dead. (happened twice.) So I respawned elsewhere and went to a different dungeon where a bug with a different rare just spammed a similar lua error until I had to hardkill the program. Couldn't escape it.

Can you go to te4_log.txt and find the exact error?

[IejirIsk]

Umm... arrowstitching.
L1 : i do 71% summon 2 wardens that do 74%
L2: I do 83% summon 2 wardens that do 57%

???

[nogglebeak]

as TW with 3 in the slow aura, I kept getting a lua error on a sling using rare that popped up, i'd close it, it would get a free attack, repeat til dead. (happened twice.) So I respawned elsewhere and went to a different dungeon where a bug with a different rare just spammed a similar lua error until I had to hardkill the program. Couldn't escape it.

Can you go to te4_log.txt and find the exact error?

I started a new game already so the log isn't in there. I did report it the first time when I could report it. I still have the save file, I think for when I had to hardquit out since I couldn't do anything else.