ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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Is spellcasting fine the way it is?
Poll ended at Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:31 pm
It is wonderful! 80%  80%  [ 8 ]
It needs casting time! 10%  10%  [ 1 ]
It needs something else! 10%  10%  [ 1 ]
It needs a lot of work, but it could happen! 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
It's hopeless, grab a sword instead! 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 10
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 Post subject: Casting Time!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:31 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 2:12 am
Posts: 45
Location: San Diego
If anyone here has ever played D&D (the ultimate game, if you have the right friends) then you know about how, according to those rules, a spell could take longer to cast if it is very intricate or difficult. At first, I was somewhat dissapointed with the fact that it was not a rule in Angband, along with dual wielding, casting wishes, memorizing spells, and all that jazz. Thankfully, some variants fix most of those problems, but casting a summoning spell can still be as quick as a magical missile.

I recently remembered a few of the things I missed from the good old days of actually having friends, and I think that if there were a few rounds to wait (move around and protecting yourself from attacks, but not cast spells, attack, or use items) where monsters or the player could be interrupted by an attack/spell/whatever would really make the game a little more interesting. It would also prevent the need to do interesting things with glyphs of warding, in most circumstances, in the case of some enemies' summoning hordes of demons or whatever.

Maybe some monsters wouldn't have a casting time, or maybe something even better is already being implimented in 3.0.0, but I'd really like to see this kind of limitation on spellcasters of all types. It might take some uncommon sense, though, or maybe somebody will just say "Make a module, David!"

Edit: I decided to add a poll for 10 days (to see what others think) and I put my vote in "It needs casting time!"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:53 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Fri May 23, 2003 8:02 pm
Posts: 194
D&D sucks... If tome gets anywhere close to looking like d&d I would quit playing it.

Btw, Spells do take time to cast and some will take longer to cast.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:32 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 2:12 am
Posts: 45
Location: San Diego
Well, sorry if I didn't know enough about ToME spellcasters (too few spells for wizards/sorcerors, right now anyways). The same still stands for monsters, though, shouldn't some not summon incredibly fast? Interrupting spells with a melee attack still isn't an option, I think.

I guess I can see why you don't like D&D, it requires a lot of creative people to really be fun. ToME is already a lot like it, though, like how the stats are exactly the same (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha... except the 18/180 thing, but ToME changes that). I'm a little curious about what part of it you don't like, but maybe a pm or e-mail (dpottinger--at--cox--dot--net) would be better for that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:04 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:15 am
Posts: 70
Location: Jersey C.I.
I'm with Balrog.. on this - I think D&D is a fabulous game, as long as you're playing with the right group of people; but then, I would say the same thing about a lot of other RPGs. One of my favourites is a game called Tunnels and Trolls - the system itself is.. basic.. to say the least, but because I had a good group to play with, the game won a place in my heart... :wink:

I voted "needs something else", based on Tabris' statement that casting times already exist in ToME. I would like to see the possibility of spells (as well as other abilities) being interrupted during use - it would necessitate the player's application of another level of tactics and strategy during play...

On a similar note, I wouldn't mind seeing a few D&D features in ToME; but, for the sake of those who loathe all things D&D, only as options, or in a module...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:11 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 2:31 pm
Posts: 1252
Location: South Africa
I'm not sure if monster's have casting time...

I know players have, though for you it feels instant. (not like being paralyzed... ) I think what happens is, you cast your spell, and it happens, then after the spell is cast you lose a certain amount of energy (what casting time is measured in).

Basically (teleport reduces casting time as level increases). Normally, you'd teleport out, and if you teleported into a bunch of monsters they'd get swings at you. If it's a high enough level of teleport, you get the first turn.

I'd prefer however, that energy is *first* subtracted, and if you get attacked, you could get a message like you could not finish your spell. Then the mount of energy you have left (ie. lets say your spell costs 100 energy, if the monster attacks you when 40 energy has elapsed, then you gain 60 energy before you start your next move).

(So maybe the teleport might work this time)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:38 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 2:12 am
Posts: 45
Location: San Diego
Well, I just thought it would be nice to be able to move around or be able to 'cancel' the spell if something bad is about to happen. Like if you're casting teleport, but have a scroll of it, too, then you could cancel the spell when you see something big come along and then read the scroll to get away quickly. If you could interrupt somebody while they're casting a spell (mess up gestures/words/thought process/whatever, then that would add a whole new dimension to the game.

I know that Angband spellcasters use mana, but how does it work? Do they just point and think, causing a magical missile to come along? Or do they need to do any kind of verbal or hand-movement things?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:05 pm 
In ToME (and roguelikes in general) there is the effect and then the cause (player actions).
Making it the other way around will cause various problems. Like what happens if you start swinging at a monster and it moves away before you finish?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:09 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 1:50 pm
Posts: 3427
Location: Virginia, USA
A good example of that would be a CL 1 character running into Smeagol. :wink:

True, it's not an 'interrupted blow', but it's the next best thing.

Besides, when fighting a truly nasty enemy, do you really want the enemy to benefit from the same thing??

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:24 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Fri May 23, 2003 8:02 pm
Posts: 194
Try casting Meta spells near monsters and you will notice the time delay when they get 2 or 3 turns at you while you only cast one spell.

Summoning aint a spell (besides fire golem), it's a power with it's own delay. I've never noticed if it's variable, but I think it roughtly equals to an attack in delay.

And as a last comment, having damage increases the spell failure. So I think they have covered that area. It's already kind of dumb to have to carry spellbooks around and if you have to memorize spells before casting (which is a really idiotic concept) I'm quitting tome :(

Really, I can understand why those can be [not] good for a table-top game but can you picture Gandalf spending 2 hours every morning thinking "Oh Today I will memorize the light of valar and maybe some create food, I have hobbits here with me afterall... Oh yeah, some of that powerful voice thing too"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:54 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:15 am
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Location: Jersey C.I.
Tabris wrote:
And as a last comment, having damage increases the spell failure. So I think they have covered that area. It's already kind of dumb to have to carry spellbooks around and if you have to memorize spells before casting (which is a really idiotic concept) I'm quitting tome :(


Absolutely! As much as I like D&D, that's one feature I could happily do without... :evil:

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"I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 9:32 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 2:12 am
Posts: 45
Location: San Diego
I never said anything about memorizing spells, as it would be a little too slow for a faster game like ToME, but maybe it wouldn't be the worst idea to have mana to cast spells quickly and be able to use mana to 'memorize' it for later.

And before you get outraged, remember that something similar is already being implimented in ToME, with the Spellbinder spell.

I don't get why everyone is getting upset about anything like not ever wanting to play the game again if so-and-so happens. If anything I think of ever gets added, it will probably be in the form of a mod. And even if it gets added to the main game, and if someone neglects to make it possible to perfectly enjoy every previous aspect of the game, then there will surely be a few people like you that would want it out, and they will make a mod that will remove it.

I don't know about everyone here, but I can't really think the greatest when being negative. If saw a mod around here somewhere that sounded bad, and I said "No, that can't do and wouldn't be fun at all," then I wouldn't really get anything out of it. But if I thought about some of the interesting strategies, character builds, loopholes, fun parts, etc. for a while then I would be filled with ideas about everything from pick-up lines, to get-well soon cards, to what to have for dinner, to new ideas for characters, to what to do in a battle with a certain unique, and all the way to plans to take over the world. So try not to say that Gandalf didn't memorize spells, because the reason he didn't use magic so much was because he decided to sleep in mornings and knocked off one of those two hours. :wink:

Besides, if you could memorize enough spells, then you wouldn't need to carry around spellbooks, duh Tabris. :twisted:

... But does damage increase spell failure on monsters? Nooooo, that would be evil, Sonny G, monsters don't ever fail their spells, all monsters have perfected the arcane arts automatically and can use magical items and special abilities by some unholy alliance with Morgoth or something. Don't ever question your superiors, Sonny G, that is MORGOTH talking through you, Sonny G! Don't you dare fall down the path to the dark side, Sonny G!

....

But I digress.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 9:46 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Fri May 23, 2003 8:02 pm
Posts: 194
Balrog in a Bucket wrote:
Besides, if you could memorize enough spells, then you wouldn't need to carry around spellbooks, duh Tabris. :twisted:

That's like fixing a headache with a hammer :P

Quote:
Nooooo, that would be evil, Sonny G, monsters don't ever fail their spells

I guess it's a lie when tome says something like "A novice mage tries to cast a spell but fails." I don't remember the exact message, but monsters do fail spells.

Anyway, It is OUTRAGEOUS! DIE DIE DIE Image

:P

(j/k)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:24 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 2:12 am
Posts: 45
Location: San Diego
Maybe I don't know enough to be suggesting ideas about the game, but I can still put up a good fight!

Does the damage you do to a monster affect it's spell failure rate? No! Are there any spells to affect spell failure rate? No again! Are there any spells that supress the ability to cast spells? No for a third time! Maybe I'm not the most eloquent, most socially skilled person around, but that sounds out of place.

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The name "Balrog in a Bucket" is dedicated to the first character of mine who ever died from a balrog.


Last edited by Balrog in a Bucket on Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:30 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 1:50 pm
Posts: 3427
Location: Virginia, USA
Chill, Balrog in a Bucket. I mean it.

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"Confusion tolerance, Pez..."
Visit the ToME wiki!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:31 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 2:12 am
Posts: 45
Location: San Diego
It was a joke! Maybe it wasn't appropriate... I'll change it.

No hard feelings, right? :D

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The name "Balrog in a Bucket" is dedicated to the first character of mine who ever died from a balrog.


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