How is it possible for Alchemist to win? (Spoilers)

[AstralWanderer]

The Alchemist has one good ability and maxed-out that can be really good - his bombs. I assume you've got all the ranks in Throw Bomb and Explosion Expert (Alchemist Protection at level 5 is pretty much a must-have also). Specialise in an element (I'd suggest Acid since Acid Alchemy gives you Caustic Mire - great for slowing down foes - and Dissolving Acid) and make sure you have equipment that provides bonuses for that element (plus penetration ability to overcome resistances).

With that lot, you can damage monsters outside of visual range, so you just need a way to spot them before they can spot you. Precognition (a possible reward from the Temporal Explorer escort quest) is one way to go, Arcane Eye (reward from a Seer escort) is another - along with items that provide the Track ability.

Add a way of moving quickly (Movement or Blink inscriptions) and you can do hit-and-run - lob a bomb around a corner, scarper before the Master comes round, rinse, repeat. This isn't guaranteed to work, but as long as you avoid getting trapped in a dead-end (or have a teleport rune handy for that possibility) you should be able to wear Him down and get him to use his special power.

[HousePet]

This isn't true however, as gem bombs do not scale with the relevant damage mod - therefore making them literally the worst offensive spell in the game. I have 150% fire damage mod and despite flame infusion converting gems to fire damage; as you can see by https://te4.org/characters/203959/tome/ ... 6e77969004 - the damage totals up to 216 damage. (You can see for yourself if you scroll over throw bomb) It is unbelievably low. It is so low in fact, that I would have been better off building for melee dps with the staff mastery I started with - I actually think it would have done more damage by now.

This is an error in the rather complicated description code for this talent. It is told to apply the damage modifier relevant for FIRE_BURN damage, which doesn't exist, instead of FIRE damage. So it applied a +9% ALL bonus only.
The +~150% modifier should apply though, as those are applied when damage is inflicted, completely outside of the talent code. Damage modifiers cannot not apply.

[AstralWanderer]

...gem bombs do not scale with the relevant damage mod - therefore making them literally the worst offensive spell in the game. I have 150% fire damage mod and despite flame infusion converting gems to fire damage...the damage totals up to 216 damage. (You can see for yourself if you scroll over throw bomb)...

The skill info popup only reports base damage - actual damage would depend not just on your damage mod but your opponent's resist and your penetration.

Now you could tell me "Well you should have built for acid damage" - but that's not going to do anything as you can plainly see from fire storm that not building for fire storm makes the elite bosses of the orc pride literally unkillable on this class.

The reason why Acid is better is:
(a) fewer opponents have significant resistance to it (this was much more the case back in 1.5.x days when Acid resist was pretty rare and only the Parasitic Mass could heal from acid damage, but even now acid tends to be more effective than fire and cold).
(b) Caustic Mire - the slowdown effect this has is far more important that the damage - at skill 5-6 it should cause opponents a 20-25% slowdown.

As a matter of fact, the Vor Pride Leader blows the entire alchemist class out of the water...consistently staying out of my range as alchemist has no mobility at all...he has both Fire and Wildfire giving him the pen and damage he needs to make even my 70% res seem like nothing - alchemist has no pen what-so-ever.

Well, the Prides are a different situation than Dreadfell. However looking at your build, you don't seem to have built up your speed at all. If you had, then (a) your mobility would improve; (b) damage from area spells would effectively drop as they are applied on a per-turn basis and (c) you'd be able to inflict more damage per turn (subject to cooldown limits). Items are key here but talents like Hymn of Shadows and racial skills like Grace of the Eternals (you've hobbled yourself IMHO by playing Thalore rather than Shalore) help massively. Shalore also get Timeless which helps reset cooldowns.

...you'd have to be intellectually dishonest to think that 216 damage - or 500 on a crit - every 3 turns which is then reduced by the Vor Pride Leader's 75% fire resistance is going to cut the mustard in any universe.

Another argument for focusing on less popular elements like acid, rather than fire.

I'd also note that you seem to have maxxed out your golem skills rather than bomb skills. Golem skills give a quick boost and so make more sense early game. Bomb skills require more investment, but provide better long term results.

I dare anybody reading this to start a playthrough on normal as an alchemist - with no mods if you're a braver man than me - and see for yourself how completely unviable this class is.

It was the first class I played and finished the game with. Though I did pretty quickly install the Adjustable Level-Up Mod to bypass the level-50 cap (I *hate* hard caps that you smack into mid-game) - you do need to start a new game for this mod to take effect though.

[AstralWanderer]

I don't know what mod you're playing with but hymn of shadows is unobtainable to my knowledge unless you are an Anorithil...

Whoops - just checked my Alchemist and that talent is indeed not obtainable - must have been playing with the Advanced Senility Mod.

The only way I can build up my speed is to have picked Shalore (Which then implies I'd have to pick this race to win which is a whole other problem) or to have gotten global speed on items which at that point is just RNG...It's moot either way however, as global speed doesn't speed up my cooldowns...

I thought the whole game was just RNG...

There are some other options (Windtouched prodigy, movement speed boost reward of the "View from the Gallery" book from Forbidden Cults). Eye of the Tiger prodigy can help with cooldowns. Shalore racial talents can help with both though.

You are effectively punished for being fire in Island 2 that is definitely the case, but without me being fire I don't know how I would have gotten this far for one thing and for another - the third ability in the tree is literally the only good damage move alchemist has in the entire class in my opinion.

High level Throw Bomb skill coupled with high level Explosion Expert will have a greater radius than Fire Storm and far better range. Damage will also be better if the bomb explosion radius is restricted by terrain.

So I don't really see the point in developing Fire Alchemy even if you do get a starting skill in it. Acid has more damage potential (fewer opponents have resistance to it) and the slowing effect of Caustic Mire gives you an effective speed boost.

...I think it's actually gotten harder for them in recent years than it used to be. I don't remember struggling like this when I first played the class years ago.

Acid isn't the uber killer element it used to be in 1.5.x, but it does still seem to be the most potent.

One boost for Alchemists though is that bomb damage now effects the Arcane Amplification Drone, so you can trigger that more often. Couple that with the Garkul's Revenge prodigy (x10 damage against constructs, including that drone) and you can do obscene amounts of damage against most opponents. But you have to commit both available prodigy slots to manage that.

What I actually need is fire penetration. How I obtain this? Your guess is as good as mine...

An Awakened Staff of Absorption should fix that problem.

If I could level up past 50 then anything is possible...I might as well just play adventurer.

You could have lots more fun mixing/matching skills that way.

[pingpongalong]

Honestly, I don't think alchemist is as bad as people think as long as you primarily focus on bombs. One thing that helped me on my nightmare RL win was I got a Prismatic Eye drop in the early-ish game and imbued it onto my Silk Current. That combo was good enough to carry me through until I got to the prides.

If you can get to level 25 before fighting the Master, the Ethereal Form prodigy is fantastic for living his hits and damaging him. I know 25 isn't the easiest to get to before the Master on normal, but if you can manage it, I think you'll find it's a lot easier.

Here's my character sheet:
https://te4.org/characters/159235/tome/ ... 931d7a709e

I went with ice because I had a lot of great equipment that boosted ice damage. Also, freezing is great. Any turn an enemy is attacking an ice block is a turn they aren't attacking you. I started with that and bombs, then eventually started grabbing the 3rd and 4th talents in the various elements. I think firestorm was one of the first ones of those. The golem only got points in the late game after I'd basically maxed everything else. I'd wanted to go tinkers on this character, but didn't get the escort. Worked out fine without it though.

Maxed out staff combat talents were better than expected for the turns when bombs were on cooldown.

One fun thing I wish I'd started doing earlier, because the golem scales so poorly, I would give it enough equipment to encumber it in a safe location. Then I'd tackle the dungeon alone. If I ever worried that I was going to die, I'd cast Golem Portal to switch positions with it.

[HousePet]

Are people aware that using Fire Infusion causes Throw Bomb to only do half damage on the first turn, with the rest as burning damage over three turns?
And also that the tooltip on the talent will not apply your damage modifiers? And certainly not the Explosion Expert modifiers?