Hey guys! I've been playing ToME for quite a while now and I've had a lot of ideas cross my mind, I decided to write one of them down on paper and organize it (a little bit) and show the other fanatics of this great game. Feel free to check it out on my Google docs page and tell me what you think and what I inevitably have done terribly wrong and need to fix immediately!
Thanks in advance for constructive criticism, I look forward to it greatly!
Aeoch
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13nf ... 61ask/edit
Commenting on the Google Doc is enabled!
If you want to post about the Temporal Apostate on the forums, please post on the other threat by edge. Thank you!
Temporal Apostate (Old Thread)
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Temporal Apostate (Old Thread)
Last edited by Aeoch on Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:00 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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malboro_urchin
- Archmage
- Posts: 393
- Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:28 pm
Re: Taleblade
I think the idea's very cool; I've personally always been enamored with the idea of a weapon that is Yours, one that grows as you do.
Infinity Blade & Schism (with the exception of Strike Through Time) seem to focus on single targets, right? I think there's thematic space for an AoE-focused tree. After all, the great epics of old contain both heroic clashes with powerful single foes (Zeus v Typhon, Achilles v Hector) and large-scale battles (the Gigantomachy & the Iliad)
Infinity Blade & Schism (with the exception of Strike Through Time) seem to focus on single targets, right? I think there's thematic space for an AoE-focused tree. After all, the great epics of old contain both heroic clashes with powerful single foes (Zeus v Typhon, Achilles v Hector) and large-scale battles (the Gigantomachy & the Iliad)
Mewtarthio wrote:Ever wonder why Tarelion sends you into the Abashed Expanse instead of a team of archmages lead by himself? They all figured "Eh, might as well toss that violent oaf up in there and see if he manages to kick things back into place.
Re: Taleblade
I also think it's a really neat idea. The idea of a Taleblade feels very appropriate for chronomancy too.
Re: Taleblade
Sorry for the double post.
I actually read this thread this morning and hadn't had coffee so didn't want to rain on your parade.
Classes based on bonded weapons are really hard to pull off right. But myself and a couple of others in IRC started talking about ways it might be done.
Probably the best example of a direction is to look at solipsists dreamhammer tree. You'd really want the taleblade to scale well with level and a rate that feels natural. You'd also want the blade to have multiple ways of leveling up so the player could take it different directions and get some replay value out of the class once the gimmick wore off.
I think doing a class with multiple talent trees devoted to the blade could work really well. Have a few base talents that determine stats and also supply some other effect (like dreamhammer) and then have other talents that give the weapon new effects (such as how Forge Echoes gives the dreamhammer melee_project).
Anyway it's an interesting idea and one that I'm sure people would love to see. Bonded weapons are a really common fantasy trope that's unfortunately not one of the easiest things to design well.
But I hope you'll keep working on your ideas. I have to say I'm intrigued
I actually read this thread this morning and hadn't had coffee so didn't want to rain on your parade.
Classes based on bonded weapons are really hard to pull off right. But myself and a couple of others in IRC started talking about ways it might be done.
Probably the best example of a direction is to look at solipsists dreamhammer tree. You'd really want the taleblade to scale well with level and a rate that feels natural. You'd also want the blade to have multiple ways of leveling up so the player could take it different directions and get some replay value out of the class once the gimmick wore off.
I think doing a class with multiple talent trees devoted to the blade could work really well. Have a few base talents that determine stats and also supply some other effect (like dreamhammer) and then have other talents that give the weapon new effects (such as how Forge Echoes gives the dreamhammer melee_project).
Anyway it's an interesting idea and one that I'm sure people would love to see. Bonded weapons are a really common fantasy trope that's unfortunately not one of the easiest things to design well.
But I hope you'll keep working on your ideas. I have to say I'm intrigued
Re: Taleblade
Thanks for the replies guys
malboro, I do agree that there should be an aoe focused tree for them to focus on, because as edge pointed out, there needs to be multiple ways for a character to level so you want to play that class again after the initial interest of the main mechanics have worn off.
edge, I also agree that there should be a whole tree devoted to Bladeheart (their first skill which encompasses all of the actual Taleblade as a weapon leveling) to spread out the progression and allow you to focus on specific aspects of it instead of a very linear path. Solipsist is actually one of the 2 classes I haven't unlocked so I browsed their skill trees and they seem to bear some similarities to Taleblade. Overall, they looked really cool, and had some great ideas.
I like the comparison to ancient epics and I think I'll take that into consideration to look for some inspiration for splitting some of this stuff into more skill trees. I tried to keep my initial document to a minimum, because I don't want to overwhelm players. I know personally on some classes I felt overwhelmed looking at all the abilities available to them, so I don't want to create a hundred different paths and 10 unique skill trees but it could certainly afford to have 2 or 3 more.
malboro, I do agree that there should be an aoe focused tree for them to focus on, because as edge pointed out, there needs to be multiple ways for a character to level so you want to play that class again after the initial interest of the main mechanics have worn off.
edge, I also agree that there should be a whole tree devoted to Bladeheart (their first skill which encompasses all of the actual Taleblade as a weapon leveling) to spread out the progression and allow you to focus on specific aspects of it instead of a very linear path. Solipsist is actually one of the 2 classes I haven't unlocked so I browsed their skill trees and they seem to bear some similarities to Taleblade. Overall, they looked really cool, and had some great ideas.
I like the comparison to ancient epics and I think I'll take that into consideration to look for some inspiration for splitting some of this stuff into more skill trees. I tried to keep my initial document to a minimum, because I don't want to overwhelm players. I know personally on some classes I felt overwhelmed looking at all the abilities available to them, so I don't want to create a hundred different paths and 10 unique skill trees but it could certainly afford to have 2 or 3 more.
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malboro_urchin
- Archmage
- Posts: 393
- Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:28 pm
Re: Taleblade
Aeoch, you need nothing more in terms of encouragement. Go forth and etch epics into reality with blade in hand!edge2054 wrote:I also think it's a really neat idea. The idea of a Taleblade feels very appropriate for chronomancy too.
Onto more constructive criticism:
I don't think Combat Veteran adds anything to the class outside of cluttering up the level up screen.
Time Scar seems like it would be more useful and fun as an active, rather than as a random proc. This might be gimmicky, but maybe Time Scar could cause damage to the teleported foe if the square it was in is now occupied (a la d&d 3.5 teleportation mechanics)?
Mewtarthio wrote:Ever wonder why Tarelion sends you into the Abashed Expanse instead of a team of archmages lead by himself? They all figured "Eh, might as well toss that violent oaf up in there and see if he manages to kick things back into place.
Re: Taleblade
malboro,
I added Combat Veteran because I looked at the class and I was worried they may not have enough defense available, and Combat Veteran was just a really simple, easy placeholder to make me feel at least a little bit better about it. I'm not totally comfortable removing it, but if a better option is put forth or more unique defense is added it would definitely be the first to go.
Also, I really like the thought that Time Scar becomes an active effect. I thought they had too many random chance procs anyways, with some turns ending in a huge, overpowered hit, while turns without effects proccing for them would feel really bad. So I'm all for removing some of the random chance in it, and I like the idea of Time Scar.
I'll start implementing some of this stuff into my document later today.
Thank you for the criticism and your kind words!
I added Combat Veteran because I looked at the class and I was worried they may not have enough defense available, and Combat Veteran was just a really simple, easy placeholder to make me feel at least a little bit better about it. I'm not totally comfortable removing it, but if a better option is put forth or more unique defense is added it would definitely be the first to go.
Also, I really like the thought that Time Scar becomes an active effect. I thought they had too many random chance procs anyways, with some turns ending in a huge, overpowered hit, while turns without effects proccing for them would feel really bad. So I'm all for removing some of the random chance in it, and I like the idea of Time Scar.
I'll start implementing some of this stuff into my document later today.
Thank you for the criticism and your kind words!
Re: Taleblade
Aeoch, chronomancy will see a lot of changes for 1.3. If you're comfortable code diving or especially if you're comfortable using git you can check out the changes here.
http://git.net-core.org/tome/t-engine4
If you want a quick rundown on how to setup git so you can see the changes more directly there's instructions in this thread.
http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=43203
The reason I bring it up is because Temporal Combat has been made more 'generic'. Not saying it's a generic talent tree but it's written as the chronomancy version of something like combat veteran. Though it lacks direct defense it does offer invigorate, weapon folding, and some nice passive procs that give good crowd control.
Spacetime Folding has also been completely rehashed. It's now much more of a caster/control tree.
For instance, and these are just really rough ideas for the sake of brainstorming.
Bladeheart - The 'generic' tree that binds you to the blade. The base blade talent would go here (like dreamhammer) along with some other misc. things. I'd do a balance of passives and actives and use this as the catch all tree. But be sure to spread the passive bonuses to the weapon itself around, a lot, otherwise people will just 5/5/5/5 the whole tree for uber weapon.
Tales Blades Tell - A tree focused on the blades past. Previous owners. Reverting things that just happened. Stuff like that. Again, these talents should give passive bonuses to the weapon. The idea is that you can't possibly invest in everything so each Taleblades weapon should end up looking different.
Story Weaving - A tree focused on the present. As above but focused on the here and now. The story as it's being written.
Something about the future - Sorry I'm out of tree names. But I think you get the idea.
Heroic Epic (locked) - Because locked trees are needed
So instead of having a two-handed hybrid with a bit of chronomancy thrown in and one really cool unique tree. You end up with a unique class with multiple build paths and lots of replay value.
http://git.net-core.org/tome/t-engine4
If you want a quick rundown on how to setup git so you can see the changes more directly there's instructions in this thread.
http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=43203
The reason I bring it up is because Temporal Combat has been made more 'generic'. Not saying it's a generic talent tree but it's written as the chronomancy version of something like combat veteran. Though it lacks direct defense it does offer invigorate, weapon folding, and some nice passive procs that give good crowd control.
Spacetime Folding has also been completely rehashed. It's now much more of a caster/control tree.
I'd go much further than this. I'd build the entire class around it. Like an archmage's theme is I blast things with elements. I have lots of elements to choose from. Your theme is I have a weapon that I'm bonded with. It's part of my tale and through me I'm part of it. To express this theme it should run through just about every part of the class.Aeoch wrote:edge, I also agree that there should be a whole tree devoted to Bladeheart (their first skill which encompasses all of the actual Taleblade as a weapon leveling) to spread out the progression and allow you to focus on specific aspects of it instead of a very linear path. Solipsist is actually one of the 2 classes I haven't unlocked so I browsed their skill trees and they seem to bear some similarities to Taleblade. Overall, they looked really cool, and had some great ideas.
For instance, and these are just really rough ideas for the sake of brainstorming.
Bladeheart - The 'generic' tree that binds you to the blade. The base blade talent would go here (like dreamhammer) along with some other misc. things. I'd do a balance of passives and actives and use this as the catch all tree. But be sure to spread the passive bonuses to the weapon itself around, a lot, otherwise people will just 5/5/5/5 the whole tree for uber weapon.
Tales Blades Tell - A tree focused on the blades past. Previous owners. Reverting things that just happened. Stuff like that. Again, these talents should give passive bonuses to the weapon. The idea is that you can't possibly invest in everything so each Taleblades weapon should end up looking different.
Story Weaving - A tree focused on the present. As above but focused on the here and now. The story as it's being written.
Something about the future - Sorry I'm out of tree names. But I think you get the idea.
Heroic Epic (locked) - Because locked trees are needed
So instead of having a two-handed hybrid with a bit of chronomancy thrown in and one really cool unique tree. You end up with a unique class with multiple build paths and lots of replay value.
Re: Taleblade
Love the ideas edge!
I'll see how all these ideas pan out tonight when I have the time and probably add some stuff to the design document.
Also, Chronomancy | Echoes of Time is a locked tree @ 10
EDIT: I had heard there were significant changes coming to a lot of the chronomancy stuff. Definitely looking forward to seeing the finalization of that so I can rethink Taleblade.
I'll see how all these ideas pan out tonight when I have the time and probably add some stuff to the design document.
Also, Chronomancy | Echoes of Time is a locked tree @ 10
EDIT: I had heard there were significant changes coming to a lot of the chronomancy stuff. Definitely looking forward to seeing the finalization of that so I can rethink Taleblade.
Re: Taleblade
Sent you a PM a few days ago Aeoch.
I really like this idea and I'm curious what your intentions were with it. If you planned to do an addon or were hoping a developer would pick it up.
If it's the later... well I really like this idea I'm curious how much creative liberty you want with it and how much you'd let said developer have
I don't want to steal your ball.. okay I kinda do. But it's not polite so I won't But I'd love to talk more to you. I'm on IRC most days if you want to get ahold of me.
rizon.net #tome
I really like this idea and I'm curious what your intentions were with it. If you planned to do an addon or were hoping a developer would pick it up.
If it's the later... well I really like this idea
I'm curious how much creative liberty you want with it and how much you'd let said developer have I don't want to steal your ball.. okay I kinda do. But it's not polite so I won't
But I'd love to talk more to you. I'm on IRC most days if you want to get ahold of me.rizon.net #tome
Re: Taleblade
Hey guys, this class has received a TOTAL revamp; it still has a ton of similarities, but its undergone a ton of changes and has many more to come. Including the name... ! ...which we don't know yet for sure. Check it out and let me know what you think!