Exaggerate Cursed… make it more like the movie "Crank."

[Delmuir]

While participating the "Whole talent system rework" thread, I addressed the topic of gameplay diversity. I think the Cursed are a good option to explore this idea due to the mechanic of hate and their reliance of passive skills.

Right now, you buff up, enter battle, and unload, rest, repeat. This is a very patient game for most builds. It's not reckless and it doesn't support "rushing." I think the Cursed can though.

My rough suggestion is to simply exaggerate the nature of how a Cursed works such that hey get MUCH stronger in battle and absolutely can't afford to rest. Make playing a Cursed a race against time… a tense, frantic, rush from battle to battle… entering weak, leaving strong, racing to the next fight. No auto exploring… no checking every last corner… just run, run, run.

This wouldn't be for everyone but it'd be different… and I think fun.

Here are my thoughts:

1. Permanent life-drain per turn… possibly getting slightly worse with each level. Probably capping at some low percent like 25%.

2. More exaggerated hate-drain.

3. Buffs based on number of enemies that the Cursed can see, in melee range, getting hit by, AND amount of damage taken.

4. Buffs based on damage done including a scaling life-drain. The more damage you do, the stronger you get AND the more damage you drain per hit.

5. Types of buffs: speed, life drain, damage, armor (but not defense), MAX life, accuracy, stamina, status-effect resistance (and maybe even immunity), etc.

6. Teleporting should cause massive penalty to hate and life… maybe 50%.

7. Any and all equipment degrades over time… his hate destroys it.

8. Huge, insane bump in buffs at max life and hate… which can only (because of permanent-drain) last one turn.

Make this character on a frantic, never-ending murder spree… taking damage while he rushes into battle but having his max life increase, along with his potential damage… assuming he survives to get into the fight, then he powers-up!

His weakness would be things like being frozen or teleported away (which would be a cool strategy to use…) or pushed back (which would make skills like flood super useful).

He'd essentially have no time to explore and have few "strategic" options but it'd certainly be a change of pace character. The most dangerous parts of the game would be everything except the ends of fights…

Maybe this could be a new character but I think the Cursed is an almost perfect character for it and would just need to "commit" more to idea inherent in its design.

Thoughts?

[Faeryan]

Seen the movie, liked it. Also like the idea though I know I will hate what it does to me.
If only it would be possible I'd like to see a Cursed not able to run from the enemy, no matter strong it is or how low on HP he is.

[The Revanchist]

Perhaps, if we want to keep the old possibility of a Cursed (which some people might want), have the Cursed Fate choice, and then place a lot more weight on it.

If they reject their curse, good for them.

If they embrace it, and unlock the Cursed Fate tree, have it warp their talents, removing some benefits, adding others, and flat out changing some talents entirely.

I think a Cursed being a Rage-monster should be viable. I'd like to see it.

[Tharsonius]

without going in detail this could be cool if balanced right, id like to add if it would be coupled to the cursed aura tree, maybe move the acquisition of said tree to the special cursed quest instead of 1st magical item so it feels more like a real choice - the quest is there and got nice lore.

[The Revanchist]

without going in detail this could be cool if balanced right, id like to add if it would be coupled to the cursed aura tree, maybe move the acquisition of said tree to the special cursed quest instead of 1st magical item so it feels more like a real choice - the quest is there and got nice lore.

The idea has my +1, provided Tharsonius' input is included. I think it would be better, thematically.

[Sirrocco]

25% life drain per turn is in no way low.

Also, equipment degradation over time is the last thing you want for a character like this. Making equipment degrade over time means that you have to obsess about it constantly. That's not so hot.

Also, you need someone who won't just die from wandering around the overland map.

Finally, this guy sounds like the perfect candidate for the antimagic-fungus-permaregen build. Any lifedrain that would even matter to someone with permaregen and a good regen infusion would make the game utterly unplayable to anyone who didn't have a good regen infusion.

Worth noting that sometimes you can't *find* the bloody enemy. If the concept inherently involves something like "if it takes you more than 20 turns before you find an enemy to whack on, then you're dead"... well, you're dead.

Actually... in keeping with the idea that the afflicted powersource has a thing about shadows, why not solve that problem. Rather than having your life drain (or perhaps along with), say that if your hate gets too low, your desperation for something to kill takes semisolid form and you start summoning hostile shadows. Voila! Instant enemy! Also gives people another reason to not dilly-dally.

[MalReynolds]

Wow, this sounds intense.

But how are you going to move around in a dungeon, if you don't know where you're going? I know you're trying to get to the next fight, but why should you have to manually move up up up left up left? I think that sounds like a chore. Just auto explore, and find the next fight as fast as you can.

Or: how about a "take me to the nearest monster" talent? It would be a "teleport-to" talent. It might weaken you slightly, but less than you would normally expect to lose trying to find the next fight. But it shouldn't take you into vaults, though, and those would be the most fun with a Raging Cursed. Maybe it takes you to the vault front door...

[The Revanchist]

I do believe Equipment degrading is... Severe. Maybe a Madness+ feature?

Hate manifests: First thoughts: cool. Beyond that, it solves all those problems with rapidlyddegrading health when out of combat. I'm assuming this isn't going to be a Doomed option in general, also.

Perhaps an "Endless Hunt" ability takes you to the nearest enemy? That is a tree from Cursed, if I recall. Initially, it takes you to the nearest enemy, with all the implications of a teleport. But with higher levels... You receive buffs from it, ready for killing right at the start.

All of these would make it less of a desperate scramble, although still keep the fast pace we desired.

[Grakor456]

I...kinda like the current Cursed, including the current effects from Cursed Aura. It could use a few tweaks, but I think a major overhaul like this would probably be better served on a separate class. Cursed is probably one of the most well-designed classes currently, don't need to muck it up too much.

[Mewtarthio]

25% life drain per turn is in no way low.

I believe that's the minimum to which it will drain you: Namely, not low enough to kill you outright, but low enough to leave you seriously weakened.

As has been pointed out, Cursed already have a good reason to go antimagic, and this would just exaggerate that. You'd have to give them a massive healmod penalty for not killing things (or maybe create a new debuff that kicks in ten turns after your last kill and eliminates all regen, a la Curse of Death) for lifedrain to be relevant.

[tylor]

I'd make him less controllable, but more powerful at high Hate. Such as - have a chance to fail skill use of max(0, hate/maxhate-3/4)*4, but when he fails, he use Rush on random enemy in range, or some area attack when enemy is adjactent.

[Sradac]

I kind of miss the old Cursed, they used to play a lot more fast paced and wrecklessly. Back then, having low hate actually hurt you a lot more, and having high hate buffed you a lot more. It pretty much forced you to forgo resting and pacing yourself, and instead constantly stay on the hunt and in the fray to keep the slaughter going.

Its a shame they "dumbed down" the cursed just like they "dumb down" games on consoles

[Delmuir]

Perhaps, if we want to keep the old possibility of a Cursed (which some people might want), have the Cursed Fate choice, and then place a lot more weight on it.

If they reject their curse, good for them.

If they embrace it, and unlock the Cursed Fate tree, have it warp their talents, removing some benefits, adding others, and flat out changing some talents entirely.

I think a Cursed being a Rage-monster should be viable. I'd like to see it.

First off… wow, lot of responses and good points. Cool.

Clever idea. Essentially make a "normal" cursed and "hyper-cursed."

Sirrocco,
Let me see if I can address your concerns.

1. I didn't mean 25% life drain per turn but rather life drain that bottomed out at 25% of your total. Heck, it could even be lower.

2. Equipement degradation. My thought was to make the character essentially so extreme in his skill-set that he was almost equipment independent, which would truly be unique for a melee character. Thus, he could throw on practically any equipment and have it kick-ass. However, I would suggest that his skills still "require" equipment, in a manner of speaking, to be effective so that the character isn't truly equipment independent.

Many people have a question about "finding enemies" so my suggestion would be to give him something like heightened senses… or even a "rage sonar." Just make him generally aware of where enemies are located but not able to see them or recognize them… just be able to know their general vicinity, even if they're invisible. I'm not sure but that's my idea… maybe someone has a better one.

The suggestion about "finding nearest enemy" also works… whatever.

Perhaps there's no need to completely overhaul that the cursed but I thought it was suitable for this type of tweak. I love the idea that I quoted… a nifty solution. If you accept the "curse" then all of your skills warp/change and then you're off to the races.

I want to be clear that the way I imagine this, it's very, very, very extremely different from every other character. It's basically a frantic run until you either win the game or die. That means, stupid things like getting lost would kill you but you'd crush most enemies, even super powerful ones… I'm imagining such overpowered buffs (in the heat of battle) that battles are actually fairly safe for your character. The real danger is wandering around…

Anyway, neat-o...

[The Revanchist]

Equipement degradation. My thought was to make the character essentially so extreme in his skill-set that he was almost equipment independent, which would truly be unique for a melee character. Thus, he could throw on practically any equipment and have it kick-ass. However, I would suggest that his skills still "require" equipment, in a manner of speaking, to be effective so that the character isn't truly equipment independent.

That would be pretty good, actually. I hadn't considered buffing the equipment while it wears through.

Many people have a question about "finding enemies" so my suggestion would be to give him something like heightened senses… or even a "rage sonar." Just make him generally aware of where enemies are located but not able to see them or recognize them… just be able to know their general vicinity, even if they're invisible.

A "rage sonar"... Perhaps it literally "detects" hatred, as in, stronger enemies can be seen more clearly and from further away, regardless of line of sight and vision? Almost like the character is drawn to it like a moth.
Whether it would show who the enemy is... That's a different sub-debate.

[Delmuir]

A "rage sonar"... Perhaps it literally "detects" hatred, as in, stronger enemies can be seen more clearly and from further away, regardless of line of sight and vision? Almost like the character is drawn to it like a moth.
Whether it would show who the enemy is... That's a different sub-debate.

Stronger enemies… further away? I love it! Love it!

I say don't show who it is, only show some indication of strength of enemy… regardless of line of sight, vision, anything. I think you nailed it.

I threw this idea out just as an example of incorporating a different style of game play but now I kind of love this idea. I think the balance and skill-set would be tricky. Honestly, I think the biggest problem would be an instinct to "tone it down" a bit which I think is a mistake.

If someone decides to do this either in the game or as add-on, let me know because I want in!