Racial talent tree for trolls

[Strongpoint]

One thing bugs me in tome... Stereotypical RPG troll is hard to kill, fast regenerating brute. But in TOME they are in the same league as wild animals: not really dangerous. In fact trollmire is one of the easies zones in the game

IMO trolls deserve some buff, and while LVL1 trolls should remain pushovers, LVL30 troll should be something hard to kill

So my proposed talent tree for them is something like that

1st talent: Regeneration bonus scaling both with talent level and constitution. (High level trolls should take a long time to kill if you have no healing reduction options. And if you got warrior troll rare\portal boss you should be scared)
2nd talent: Some kind of special melee attack... No good idea here
3rd talent: Physical resistance% and physical save scaled with raw talent level (Trolls should be hard to be killed by regular weapon, and hard to stun)
4th talent: Activated instant immunity for all new bad status effects for few turns

I am mostly interested in first, because right now trolls are anything but fast regenerating like lore implies...

Such changes will not buff low level trollmire trolls too much, make Prox suck less and Bill... Well players are warned to not go into his lair

[Zonk]

Amusingly...just yesterday I had been thinking (again!) about a (Forest)Troll player character race addon(because waiting for the Troll campaign could take a long time...).

Because it was meant to work for the player too, my idea for the racial tree was somewhat different. For example the base talent would be an Activate for a damage bonus that gets higher the lower the Troll's life % is, while the 2nd would be a passive bonus to life regen, healing mod(say 5% per TL) *and* disease/poison resistance.

I do agree in general Trolls are pretty meh compared to orcs, in addition to racial talents however, what about giving the higher level trolls Berserker talents? Unstoppable I think would fit very well...Though we shouldn't over do it. Brawler/grappling talents might also work.

Could also decrease the fire vulnerability from 50% to say, 25%.

[HousePet]

Bonus heal mod for the first talent.

[Strongpoint]

Zonk, I can't say that my version is unsuited for PC... 4th talent alone can be huge in many situations but I don't really care what talents troll get if they'll get buffed and become regenerating threat

Like your +% to damage when low on hit points but why activated instead of passive? Also, I think that regeneration boosting talent should be first, that's a key aspect of troll after all (plus that will create newb friendly race, making surviving first levels way easier)

I dislike the second talent with +regen +heal mod + bligh\poison resistance

1) Troll leather gives regeneration not heal mod. And I see no reason why external healing methods should work better on trolls than on any other race
2) It becomes way too similar to vitality. While my version with just regeneration is too similar to fast metabolism... Trolls do have fast metabolism and unlike class talent it scales with constitution. Hmmm... Maybe the talent should give life, stamina, psi and mana regeneration. Making it "trolls regenerate all inner resources faster" and making that talent useful for way more classes
3) That can and will make rare trolls with healing talents toooo nasty... Imagine fighting with a troll that has many levels in fast metabolism and vitality
4) You can effectively combat large regeneration with impending doom and other talents like that. Fighting against large heal mod is way harder

[Zonk]

Like your +% to damage when low on hit points but why activated instead of passive? Also, I think that regeneration boosting talent should be first, that's a key aspect of troll after all (plus that will create newb friendly race, making surviving first levels way easier)

Nothing wrong with it being a passive, but it was an Active to better fit with non-undead tier 1 racial talents.

I dislike the second talent with +regen +heal mod + bligh\poison resistance

1) Troll leather gives regeneration not heal mod. And I see no reason why external healing methods should work better on trolls than on any other race

Well again it was meant to be for the player, so generally useful. Also it was specifically poison/disease.

2) It becomes way too similar to vitality. While my version with just regeneration is too similar to fast metabolism... Trolls do have fast metabolism and unlike class talent it scales with constitution. Hmmm...

Maybe the talent should give life, stamina, psi and mana regeneration.
Making it "trolls regenerate all inner resources faster" and making that talent useful for way more classes

Useful for more/most/all classes is good philosophy for player-usable talents, but regenerating EVERYTHING faster doesn't feel very trolllike to me at all, unfortunately. Healing Mod would be useful to almost everyone on the other hand.

One idea I had which doesn't really fit with existing lore but I sorta liked anyway tie the two troll type(Forest & Stone) together by having a passive talent which represented the troll's flesh hardening(while still regenerating however) thus decreasing fire vulnerability, giving bonus armor and increasing physical resistance slightly, hower it would also reduce global speed by just a bit. Could be the final talent in the tree.


Still, again, to get more fearsome Troll NPCs we don't necessarily need new racial talents, could just hand out existing class talents to the current trolls...

[jotwebe]

1st talent - Uncanny Regeneration: restoration-like effect when loosing more than X life, chance to shrug off physical effects (but not burning)
2nd talent - Trollskin: flat damage reduction, all damage types except fire
3rd talent - Raw Savagery: chance when loosing more than X life, increase move speed, saves, gives chance to daze or pin on melee hit
4th talent - Terrifying Power: when successfully making a saving roll, intimidation-like effect and chance to proc Uncanny Regeneration and Raw Savagery

[Strongpoint]

but regenerating EVERYTHING faster doesn't feel very trolllike to me at all, unfortunately.

well, it doesn't fit a stereotype troll... But why doesn't it fit TOME lore?

Still, again, to get more fearsome Troll NPCs we don't necessarily need new racial talents, could just hand out existing class talents to the current trolls...

Hmmm. True.
That can work, nicely, too. Combat veteran tree fit trolls. Conditioning tree fits them even better. + Combat training with thick skin and armour mastery . That will turn trolls into regenerative tanks that shrug off stuns and confusions. and have high enough spell save to laugh of your spells


Semi serious unique generic troll racial skill proposal:
Talent that gives mastery bonuses to combat veteran, combat training and conditioning.

[Zonk]

but regenerating EVERYTHING faster doesn't feel very trolllike to me at all, unfortunately.

well, it doesn't fit a stereotype troll... But why doesn't it fit TOME lore?

The lore specifically mentions trolls regenerating faster from wounds, says nothing about their other 'resources'.

That can work, nicely, too. Combat veteran tree fit trolls. Conditioning tree fits them even better. + Combat training with thick skin and armour mastery . That will turn trolls into regenerative tanks that shrug off stuns and confusions. and have high enough spell save to laugh of your spells

The existence of 'Troll Thunderers' suggests that something could also be done with Arcane Blade talents.

[rexorcorum]

Following an IRC conversation with Zonk earlier today and handling the troll racial question on a different level, I've made a quick forest troll player doll, using the corresponding shockbolt tile and the runic golem silhouette. It can be used for a separate troll race addon or a module, etc. I've put it in a dedicated page for Addon and Module resources in the ToME Wiki: http://te4.org/wiki/Resources_for_Addons_and_Modules.

Cheers!

[Zonk]

Another idea for a trollish talent I thought up: 'limited'immortality that works by letting the player live below their regular death threshold(usually 0, but you know how some equipment, necromancy... can change that)up to a point BUT stuns them(or otherwise gives a significant debuff)with no resistance allowed.