Time stop

[Suslik]

The only game that I know which is able to compete with Tome4 in tactical complexity is Baldur's Gate : Shadows of Amn and Throne of Bhaal. Well, there are other tactically engaging games, but the way BG and Tome4 engage you are really similar and I think Tome4 can inherit a few things from it.

The first thing that makes endgame combat in Baldur's Game look epic is Time Stop ability.

Those who don't know about the original ability or have forgotten

This is the most high-level ability in Baldur's Gate. Has a very long cast time, can be easily interrupted, but if the mage manages to cast it, everything around him grays out and time stops:


Next, the mage has a few seconds to do anything he wants - walk, cast spells, buff himself, but if he fires any kind of projectile, it will only start moving once the spell is over. The spell significantly changes the tide of most battles, since there's almost no way to protect from it - everyone is affected except for the caster.

This concept can be easily adapted to Tome4 battle scheme as well. Imagine a high-level spell with a long cooldown that stops everything except for the caster for a few turns(3-4 should do, I think). Of course this is immensely powerful ability and it must consume almost all mana/paradox power or have a high chance of failing for paradox mage.

What do you guys think? Good idea? Bad idea?

[phantomglider]

Edge has said he wanted this as a chronomancy ability but it was too hard to code. Practically speaking, the effect is pretty much the same as giving the caster a gigantic general speed boost for a duration of 1 or so - like movement infusions, but not broken by doing non-movement stuff - but that would be massively broken with Timeless.

EDIT: Not to mention that this would make it so easy for rares to one-shot the hell out of you. *walks around corner* *gets hit by Turn Back The Clock, Gravity Spike, Quantum Spike, Dust to Dust, and Time Stop all at once*

[Suslik]

the effect is pretty much the same as giving the caster a gigantic general speed boost for a duration of 1

exactly

what problems do you see with non-movement stuff? and what's wrong with timeless?

[phantomglider]

and what's wrong with timeless?

If getting 4 or 5 actions in a single turn is really powerful, consider how powerful getting 4 or 5 actions every turn for 6 turns in a row would be. That's what's wrong with Timeless.

[Suslik]

I have yet to unlock chronomage so I do not his abilities yet

Well, it's definitely possible to assign the ability to some other class, what's wrong with it?

[peaceoutside]

Paradox mages have some great abilities.

Something kind of like this is Cease To Exist.

Single target debuff that lasts a few turns. Gives -X% resist all.

If you kill the enemy while the debuff is still active, the game reverts back to the turn you casted the spell, but the enemy you casted it on is gone. All your health, resources and cooldowns revert back to what they used to be. You still get exp. and item drops though.

[Suslik]

Sounds pretty badass, but please no more spoils please

[Phoenix1]

You could probably do it, or something pretty close to it, as basically an area Time Prison effect. That would also get around the insta-kill problem - you can use Time Stop to get the opportunity to buff, heal, approach, escape, etc, but not to actually attack. It wouldn't even need to be that hard to use; it would be better than, say, a Movement infusion, since you wouldn't actually need decent cover to run behind and there wouldn't be a chance of enemies getting in a lucky ranged attack while you move, but not by any really huge degree.

[phantomglider]

I have yet to unlock chronomage so I do not his abilities yet

Well, it's definitely possible to assign the ability to some other class, what's wrong with it?

Timeless is the level 24 Shaloren racial talent. No matter which class gets unrestricted movement infusion, it would be over-the-top bonkers for Shalore.

[donkatsu]

You could just make it another "Other" type buff. Timeless would not be an issue, at all.

[SageAcrin]

Also, if it was based on the amount of actions you got rather than the amount of raw turns you got, which I want to say some effects do anyways, the effect would be fairly major, but nothing game-breaking with the proper costs on the time stop ability to start with. They'd just get twice the actions of most people.

It's kinda like how Shalore over double Haste's duration. Really good, but nothing that'll keep you from dying without good play on top of it. I feel like Shalore needs stuff like that to be competitive, so I sure wouldn't have a problem with it.

[lukep]

An alternate (and easy to code) way of doing it is to directly give the caster a few turns worth of energy. That avoids the Timeless problems, and prevents it from stacking with +speed effects (IIRC). The rest of the fundamental balance problems are still there though.

[Frumple]

Yeah... I can just see a multiclass p.mage/archer or warden. Pops time stop, next thing you know you just took like 2.5k damage worth of arrows to your brain pan. On the low end

On single class shenanigans... time stop -> Damage -> damage -> damage -> teleport, assuming a four action boost. Rest, rinse, repeat. Near perfectly safe hit and run. Assuming anything survives the bit before teleport. Basically the only threat in the game would be round the corner instasplat, heh.

Don't get me wrong, it'd be hilarious, but it's somewhat incompatible with T4's current balance paradigms. You can see what this was like back when that... what, steal time or whatev'? That talent that gave you 300% global or somethin' for a few turns, then paralyzed you. Was a thing. Even without timeless shenanigans, it allowed some pretty ridiculous things. I remember well the consequences of something getting multiple turns before anything could act. That warden was balls-out insane, heehee.

[lukep]

One way it could stay balanced is if it was instant cast, and gave only one turn of energy at a high cost. (with a debuff after/during?)

[SageAcrin]

Nah, not high cost/debuff.

Make it a prodigy skill, instead. That way, it being a powerful skill fits in with the other powerful skills.