Twinblade (a rogue alternative)

[Canderel]

Right, so I am always bitching and moaning about how rogues should look/play. So I am proposing this rogue class, which uses the exact same trees as a rogue, but is aimed toward being less sneaky, and more killing. Also enabling str/dex builds rather than dex/cun builds.

I really need perhaps a better name, and some kind of description. Help will be welcome.

So stat changes:
Str +3 (+2), Dex +5 (+2), Cun +1(-4)

Tree Changes:
+Combat-Techniques-Active
+Combat-Techniques-Active.
-Lethality
-Trapping

Starting talents
+Precise Strikes
+Dual Weapon Training
Stealth
Dual Strike

-Lethality
-Trap Mastery

Diff:

Code: Select all

--- a/game/modules/tome/data/birth/classes/rogue.lua
+++ b/game/modules/tome/data/birth/classes/rogue.lua
@@ -30,6 +30,7 @@ newBirthDescriptor{
                        __ALL__ = "disallow",
                        Rogue = "allow",
                        Shadowblade = "allow",
+                       Twinblade = "allow",
                },
        },
        copy = {

@@ -118,3 +119,37 @@ newBirthDescriptor{
                resolvers.inscription("RUNE:_MANASURGE", {cooldown=25, dur=10, mana=620}),
        },
 }
+
+newBirthDescriptor{
+       type = "subclass",
+       name = "Twinblade",
+       desc = {
+               "TODO: Write some description here.",
+               "#GOLD#Stat modifiers:",
+               "#LIGHT_BLUE# * +3 Strength, +5 Dexterity, +0 Constitution",
+               "#LIGHT_BLUE# * +0 Magic, +0 Willpower, +1 Cunning",
+       },
+       stats = { dex=5, str=3, cun=1, },
+       talents_types = {
+               ["technique/dualweapon-attack"]={true, 0.3},
+               ["technique/dualweapon-training"]={true, 0.3},
+               ["technique/combat-techniques-active"]={true, 0.3},
+               ["technique/combat-techniques-passive"]={true, 0.3},
+               ["technique/combat-training"]={true, 0.3},
+               ["technique/field-control"]={false, 0},
+               ["cunning/stealth"]={true, 0.3},
+               ["cunning/trapping"]={false, 0.3},
+               ["cunning/dirty"]={true, 0.3},
+               ["cunning/lethality"]={false, 0.3},
+               ["cunning/survival"]={true, 0.3},
+       },
+       unlockable_talents_types = {
+               ["cunning/poisons"]={false, 0.3, "rogue_poisons"},
+       },
+       talents = {
+               [ActorTalents.T_STEALTH] = 1,
+               [ActorTalents.T_DUAL_WEAPON_TRAINING] = 1,
+               [ActorTalents.T_PRECISE_STRIKES] = 1,
+               [ActorTalents.T_DUAL_STRIKE] = 1,
+       },
+}

[Grey]

I've had thoughts along the same line - a strength-based rogue - but without the emphasis on twin daggers (since sword + dagger is quite viable on a strength-based class). Something more akin to the Charlatan class in MoRE. Or maybe an assassin of sorts.

I would say get rid of Stealth altogether, and have added trees concentrating on passive increases to defence, accuracy, crit rate, etc. Give them field control open from the start. Maybe give them Battle Tactics as a locked tree (dex actually helps a fair bit with that tree's talents). Perhaps another tree focused on light armour fighting, with bonuses to defence, crit rate and armour hardiness when wearing leather armour (would make a good generic tree). Could also give them the Cunning/Tactical tree, initially locked.

As for class name, perhaps something along the lines of Bandit, Raider or Marauder? Description idea:


The wilds of Maj'Eyal are not a safe place. Untamed beasts and wandering dragons may seem a great threat, but the true perils walk on two legs. Thieves and brigands, assassins and opportunistic adventurers, even mad wizards and magic-hating zealouts.

Amidst this chaos wanders one class of rogue that has learned to take by force rather than subterfuge. With refined techniques, agile feats and brawn-backed blades the Marauder seeks out its targets and removes them by the most direct methods. It uses dual weapons backed by advanced combat training to become a highly effective killing machine.

[Zonk]

I too enjoyed playing a Rogue without bothering with stealth - so basically a kind of lightly armoured fighter that did not rely on brute strength.

For names, may I suggest Swashbuckler too?

[Canderel]

Yes... I want 2 things... What I like about this as is, is it's the way I think rogues should look. This is exactly the same as a rogue (cause I see it as a replacement), but your start will be different, and the perhaps the focus of your build will be different and opens up the oppertunity for a str/dex rogue rather than a cun/dex forced rogue. The cunning_tactical tree does look like it'll fit well though.

The other, is like you mentioned a dual-weapon-fighter class. There I would remove stealth, and add lots of other stuff, like battle-tactics, tactical-cunning tree, your proposed tree also looks awesome. And conditioning from brawlers. Bandit/Marauder looks like a very apt name, though bandit is already used and doesn't use this skill set.

By the way, your description is awesome. I *love* it.

[edge2054]

Tactical Cunning would need minor tweaking for it to work with another class. At first it was written to be compatible with weapon based fighting but some brawler characters where going around counter attacking everything with weapons so I disallowed counter attacking for weapon users :/ But it should be a fairly easy adjustment.

On the other hand it is a cunning based tree and if you go the Str/Dex route it doesn't make a lot of sense.

[bricks]

Tactical Cunning would need minor tweaking for it to work with another class. At first it was written to be compatible with weapon based fighting but some brawler characters where going around counter attacking everything with weapons so I disallowed counter attacking for weapon users :/ But it should be a fairly easy adjustment.

On the other hand it is a cunning based tree and if you go the Str/Dex route it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Could you force counter-attacking to use unarmed attacks? Along the same lines, you could allow counter-attacking so long as you have one empty hand (off or main). I think it is sensible that you would need an open hand to counter-attack, for maneuvering/control purposes.

[edge2054]

Mostly I didn't want brawlers running around 5ing everything to death with two elemental daggers. There's a few ways to fix it so it'd be workable for other classes; one of which is just to have it work one way for brawlers and another way for everyone else (probably the simplest).

[tiger_eye]

I'm all for having a new rogue class as long as the current rogue class is unchanged.

[...] and have added trees concentrating on passive increases to defence, accuracy, crit rate, etc

But those are already included in "Technique / Dual Weapons" and "Technique / Combat Techniques"

The class as suggested does seem rather fighter-ish in style, as pretty much all the main talent categories fall under "techniques". A new tree or two would probably go a long way to giving the class a unique feel. I had thought of a strength-based rogue a while back. Now if only I could find those notes that may not exist...

One final thought: perhaps the class could be designed around having Str and Cun as the primary stats. That could potentially differentiate them from both fighters and current rogues.

[shooth]

+1 on the str and cun comment. Where is the garrote? How about 'Thugs' as class name? I think they should have intrinsic bonuses for smaller weapons, penalties for large ones, or other mechanisms (skills) which guide players to appropriate weaponry.

[Canderel]

Darkgod said (on IRC) that he'd like a class specific tree just for them (Marauders/Bandits/Raiders/Thugs... Rogue?).

Anyway, so some ideas coming from myself, and some ideas came from reading through here. My suggestions is:
* Dart and Dash - Jumps up to X squares away (needs LOS, and no creatures in the way, maybe can jump over/under creatures 2 sizes different than you), and gain then increases movement speed by Y%. May not be used while wearing iron armor. Breaks stealth. Scales with Dex
* Retaliate - Only works if you are wielding a daggers. A riposte/counter attack like talent, passively giving you a free hit with your off hand if you successfully dodge an attack. Scales with dex
* Natural Instincts - Passively gain X defense, and boosts the defense bonus of your cloth or leather armour by 50*skill%
* Fatal Dance - Only works if you are wielding a daggers. Only works on dazed/stunned/paralysed opponents. Hit your foe with your main hand for 100+X%, if that attack hits, hit your foe with your off hand for 70+Y% damage, whilst both blades are inside your opponent, rip the daggers upwards trying to separate them from their organs. Both weapons automatically hit again and have a critical hits ignoring all armour. Damage synergizes with Dual Strike talent.


Other ideas, depending on if stealth stays in...
Passively uses dexterity instead of cunning to determine stealth strength

For a str-cun class:
Increase crit damage more.