Armour sustains and Hardiness

[lukep]

Carbon Spikes, Icy Skin and Stone skin lose much of their utility without a large investment in Armour Training and wearing heavy armour. This isn't usually an issue for Wyrmics, but the extra 30 (Archmage) to 60 armour (Paradox Mage) is much less effective when the character has 30% armour hardiness. I propose having the skills add to Hardiness as well as to the base armour.

[Hedrachi]

+1

[edge2054]

While less effective early game armor grows in effectiveness as the game progresses regardless of hardiness.

Stone Skin could probably use a little more umphh and boosted hardiness wouldn't be a bad way to go (though I like knockback or stun resist better). Icy Skin and Carbon Spikes on the other hand both do more then just provide armor and both are interesting talents in their own right. Also Carbon Spikes would probably need a nerf on the armor portion if it also provided hardiness.

Finally, on Carbon Spikes at least. I still have another planned chronomancy class in my head, one that will wear heavy armor and have access to this spell. Giving it a boost to armor hardiness would allow that class to ignore the benefits of armor training past talent level 4 which I don't particularly like the sound of.

[bricks]

Going to pop in and say that Primal Skin is in the same basket. (though it's a pittance when compared to the +resist all from Unnatural Body at high hate)

I actually find it a little strange that these skills give armor instead of, say, innate physical resistance. In all cases we are talking about a physical change to the player; the concept of "armour hardiness," something that comes from training, doesn't seem to apply. This does seem like it especially punishes Doomed and Paradox Mages, though I can't be certain since I really don't understand how the hardiness stat works.

[edge2054]

It works pretty much the same way as unspiked Mindslayer shields. It protects up to it's maximum percentage of the attack. So if you have 100 armor and 30% armor hardiness and get hit for 10 you'll take 3 damage (because the most it can protect on a 10 damage hit is 30% of 10). If you get hit for 1000 you'll take 900 damage (because the most the hardiness will protect you against is 300 but the most your armor value can absorb is 100). In other words it takes whatever is lowest, the percentage from armor hardiness or the off the top from armor.

[greycat]

So if you have 100 armor and 30% armor hardiness and get hit for 10 you'll take 3 damage (because the most it can protect on a 10 damage hit is 30% of 10).

You'll take 7 damage, assuming the hardiness is being applied to the number 10. It absorbs 3.

My understanding of the way armor used to work, before hardiness, was that armor was applied to the attacker's base combat damage before various multipliers. So if the armor is being applied to a base damage of, say, 7 (which later gets a +43% boost to make 10) then you can absorb up to 30% of 7, which is 2.1, so you're getting hit for 4.9 * 1.43 = ... um, 7. Hmm. Well, maybe that wasn't a great example.

If you get hit for 1000 you'll take 900 damage (because the most the hardiness will protect you against is 300 but the most your armor value can absorb is 100). In other words it takes whatever is lowest, the percentage from armor hardiness or the off the top from armor.

That sounds correct.

Now let's suppose you're being attacked by someone doing 500 damage with a +100% multiplier at the end. You have 30% hardiness and 100 armor. 30% of 500 is 150, and min(100,150) is 100, so 100 points are absorbed from that. 500 - 100 absorbed = 400, and 400 * 2.00 (multiplier) means you take 800 damage, rather than 900.

But I'm not entirely sure how armor works now. I may be conflating old mechanics with new mechanics.

[edge2054]

Yeah, slept in today and hadn't had my morning coffee. Greycat's correct. You take 7 and it absorbs 3.

He's also correct on armor being applied before other multipliers. So armor is still very good against crits and talent multipliers.