Is the grand corruptor too strong? (spoilers)

[Delmuir]

Thus Dark Crypt is crap, its just gambling. It is substantively and mechanically different because even if you are amazing at the game if it pops at an unlucky time you are screwed. Game over, man, game over. Gambling on roguelike is stupid. But Grand Corruptor, while possibly something that kills the unwary pr overly brave, is certainly doable and doable by many. Perhaps it needs an atamathon "are you sure?"

I also think this is a good point… just add a piece of lore that tells you about the Grand Corruptor although I would discourage an outright warning.

About the Dark Crypt, - that place. I absolutely LOATHE that quest. It's one of the primary reasons that I don't play many melee characters, Cornacs, or Yeeks anymore.

It absolutely demands preparation but affords you none… It's a ridiculous trap for new players. In essence, a player has to get to lvl 23 and right before they level, they should go into Dreadfell in order to come out as strong as possible. That is immensely frustrating as it messes up your build or game experience on a number of classes.

It comes randomly, and potentially has catastrophic starting locations… more than anything else in the game, that has killed me. The majority of my non-mage characters die there. If they survive, the game is usually won. It's killed me at a higher percent than Dreadfell, High Peak, or anything else in the game… except maybe the Yeek starting dungeons.

Of sure, I could skip it but given how limited XP and items are, that's not a good option, that's an excuse for bad design.

[cctobias]

Thus Dark Crypt is crap, its just gambling. It is substantively and mechanically different because even if you are amazing at the game if it pops at an unlucky time you are screwed. Game over, man, game over. Gambling on roguelike is stupid. But Grand Corruptor, while possibly something that kills the unwary pr overly brave, is certainly doable and doable by many. Perhaps it needs an atamathon "are you sure?"

I also think this is a good point… just add a piece of lore that tells you about the Grand Corruptor although I would discourage an outright warning.

About the Dark Crypt, - that place. I absolutely LOATHE that quest. It's one of the primary reasons that I don't play many melee characters, Cornacs, or Yeeks anymore.

It absolutely demands preparation but affords you none… It's a ridiculous trap for new players. In essence, a player has to get to lvl 23 and right before they level, they should go into Dreadfell in order to come out as strong as possible. That is immensely frustrating as it messes up your build or game experience on a number of classes.

It comes randomly, and potentially has catastrophic starting locations… more than anything else in the game, that has killed me. The majority of my non-mage characters die there. If they survive, the game is usually won. It's killed me at a higher percent than Dreadfell, High Peak, or anything else in the game… except maybe the Yeek starting dungeons.

Of sure, I could skip it but given how limited XP and items are, that's not a good option, that's an excuse for bad design.

I just want to make it clear that I actually like the Dark Crypt as an area, its only the way it pops up with no recourse that I dislike.

[Delmuir]

I also should have made that clear. The Dark Crypt as an area is fantastic… tricky and interesting. As a random popup… hate it.

I completely agree with you.

[Davion Fuxa]

I suppose in the case of the Dark Crypt its a question of whether you hate it because you would have liked to complete it but felt it would be too difficult, or like it because it is a case of a decision mechanic. Personally I don't mind having the Dark Crypt pop up as it does - I'm not against a little decision making on what dungeons I may or may not pursue in game.

[Delmuir]

Davion,

I don't disagree on the random dungeon pop-up, in the sense that it's nice to have options. The problem is that there aren't enough.

There are really just the two that are forced choices. There are plenty of other optional ones but just the two that are forced, and neither is in the East when you're stronger.

The problem isn't that it's a pop-up dungeon but rather WHEN it pops up. Lvl. 24 is problematic to me… heck, even lvl. 26 would be a massive improvement.

Personally, I'd like to see much more of those kinds of events, such that choosing to pass one up isn't a problem. Ideally, there would be a series of choices… if you pick one quest then another doesn't appear, etc. I think that would add a lot to gameplay and would make the notion of choice relevant.

As it stands, not picking that dungeon isn't really viable for some builds… especially if you need the extra level or two or maybe some gear.

Honestly, I'd like to see about twenty optional dungeons of which no more than ten can ever activate. Place conditions on them… things like: must be between lvl 5-10 and have not completed Kor Pul or something like that.

Others can be an either/or kind of situation… I think some of the escort missions could be replaced with mini-dungeon quests.

[cctobias]

I suppose in the case of the Dark Crypt its a question of whether you hate it because you would have liked to complete it but felt it would be too difficult, or like it because it is a case of a decision mechanic. Personally I don't mind having the Dark Crypt pop up as it does - I'm not against a little decision making on what dungeons I may or may not pursue in game.

Well I would argue the problem is that sometimes there is no decision. DC is, at level 24, one of the most damaging places in the game. You can easily start taking double the damage of other places (other than running into something like multiple stone thrower giants in daikara).

In general you will have two routes:
1) whatever your builds defense strategy (shields, unstoppable, etc)
2) stockpiling blight resistance

Both of the above either will or will not be online when the event pops. Its purely luck based there is no decision. You can argue that this is the decision because there is some analysis involved, but I think that is a bad argument. You do your analysis of your defenses and either they will work or they won't. You may decide to risk it anyway, but in general, this is simply bad tactics for roguelike. If your analysis says "yeah I need two more levels to get this build where it would need to be and right now DC is a 50/50 chance at ending this game". Then there is no decision, in roguelike 50/50 chance at death is an automatic "get the hell out".

If you want to say that such analysis and is good and valid part of them game then that is fine and its true, but this is not a decision. Its a death trap you may be smart enough avoid.

I am not averse to death traps with guaranteed ways out. But having an entire zone work that way is not something I am in favor of.

DC is dangerous even when you are prepared. This is good. But whether you go in or not, when the event pops is rarely a "decision" even if the popup technically has a Yes/No interface. It is more like a test with a correct answer than a decision.

[Matanui3]

The Grand Corruptor is on the second level of Mark of the Spellblaze, so you have the whole of the first area to realise that fire and blight spellcasters are around.

The Assassin Lord can be quite hard for a newbie, especially if they aren't over level 10 before they find it (which experienced players are). And the reward is 8 gp for a newbie. Hardly immense.

8 gp and a shop in Last Hope (if said newbie reads the text...), which often has artifacts in stock.




My maim problem with GC is that he grinds me to death in Fearscape... and then I respawn and find him trivially easy to take down. Do his cooldowns not reset when you respawn, even though his hp does?

[Faeryan]

Didnt read most of the stuff but GC being optional as well as not too damaging for your progress if you skip it.
That said I find him rather easy considering you can prepare for him properly.

As for the Crypt it's hard. Don't like either how it pops up at the most inconvenient times. Often I dive Dreadfell before it pops and if I'm lucky I make a trip to the east before it pops.

The hardest part about the Crypt for me is the small levels. The last one being bigger is not so much a problem. So if the level layout could be made bigger I'd consider it rather fair in terms of difficulty.

While the Crypt either doesn't make you lose much if you skip it I still tend to try it to save the girl (except when I go for achievement or prodigy in which case I still have to do the quest). If GC would have something similar, a small quest line or something, I would complete it more often.

[Frumple]

... the GC does have a small quest line, roughly on par with the crypt (if not the post-crypt melinda stuff). It's just only for folks with a certain number of spells under their belt.

[Faeryan]

... the GC does have a small quest line, roughly on par with the crypt (if not the post-crypt melinda stuff). It's just only for folks with a certain number of spells under their belt.

I know about that alright, but I don't really consider it a quest. It's not even a real quest level, just a few townsfolks and boss.