[1.5.x] Class/Race Tier List

[Aesthete]

...

That link is to my madness TW winner, that I just won yesterday. It's up to you whether or not you want to believe it, I did vault over mercy so that doesn't count under the "S" rules listed, but it doesn't really matter that much. Having it in B tier is totally wrong though.

[Snarvid]

Drem Oozemancers are currently S-class due to their ability to gain infinite Nature's Equilbrium attacks via Fungal Blood/Ancestral Life cancels and the synergy between Frenzy and Slime Roots. I've made it to the East in the past with an Oozemancer on Madness before running out of steam on damage, so I know they can survive long enough to get a Prodigy.

No, I'm not going to play it out to prove it, because that's way too many clicks for my sanity.

[Mex]

Drem Oozemancers are currently S-class due to their ability to gain infinite Nature's Equilbrium attacks via Fungal Blood/Ancestral Life cancels and the synergy between Frenzy and Slime Roots. I've made it to the East in the past with an Oozemancer on Madness before running out of steam on damage, so I know they can survive long enough to get a Prodigy.

No, I'm not going to play it out to prove it, because that's way too many clicks for my sanity.

Using exploits will not make your win valid.

[Arcvasti]

Using exploits will not make your win valid.

Tier S
Possessor

???

[Snarvid]

It’s the end result of a bunch of talents doing exactly what they say they do being combined in a specific way, not a bug or hacking the in-game values. I can imagine that DG wasn’t intending they be used that way together, but I suspect there’s a lot of normal Insane+ gameplay that meets that criterion (e.g. drowning).

I’m not doing it out because it would be incredibly tedious. On those grounds, I don’t expect them added to your list, because the rule of “stream the whole thing” isn’t being followed. But they’re currently strong enough for a patient player to be able to win Madness if you can get to level 30 with the right gear, or 36 without it. Seemed worth mentioning in a place where people look for that kind of thing.

[St_ranger_er]

I’m not doing it out because it would be incredibly tedious.

Check this tedium removing addon http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=47052

[furtbat]

This list doesn't seem to be based on which classes are the easiest to beat insane with, but instead on which classes reach the highest level of power by end game. Those two things are not the same at all.

For example, how the hell is oozemancer tier C when it is virtually unkillable from levels 1-50 and does at least middle of the pack damage (dual mindstars with +nature damage and respen from class talents)? Yet, classes that have notoriously difficult early/mid games like shadowblade and arcane blade are A tier.

It seems as if this list is more based on which classes can theoretically beat madness. That's a pretty meaningless metric for playing on insane as the list claims. If you are making a tier list based on which classes can most easily beat insane, make the list reflect that metric. If you are using some other metric to rank the classes into tiers, state the metric you are using and stick to it.

[helminthauge]

I want see cult classes and races added.
And my most interest: can the lone shalore finally find a companion (drem)?

[Snarvid]

Drem Oozemancer who made it to level 30 on Madness & unlocked Fungal Blood. I think I have stalled out at Dreadfell, though (most enemies are in their 40s with all the Madness buffs to boot), so it's unlikely that I'll be able to get to 36 from here. I would either need to not have taken Oozing Blades or found Sludgegrip or Slime Mastery amulet by this point to get the 3 skill reset off Slime Roots that leads to the infinite. My *guess* is that I could have gotten by with just Acid Splash/Poisonous Spores/Call of the Ooze, but it might just be easier to restart if you don't find Sludgegrip in T1 dungeons.

[isaacssv552]

Why is a stream the mark of legitimacy? It is true that character sheets are easy to fake. However, it isn't much harder to cheat on-stream than off, you can literally just comment out the hash checks and modify the module/engine directly (avoiding visible addons). Who needs the item vault when you can hardcode drops? Hate seeing that one talent on randbosses? You can add it to a blacklist. A stream really only precludes blatant cheating like extra talent points or teleporting to High Peak from Trollmire.

[helminthauge]

Why is a stream the mark of legitimacy? It is true that character sheets are easy to fake. However, it isn't much harder to cheat on-stream than off, you can literally just comment out the hash checks and modify the module/engine directly (avoiding visible addons). Who needs the item vault when you can hardcode drops? Hate seeing that one talent on randbosses? You can add it to a blacklist. A stream really only precludes blatant cheating like extra talent points or teleporting to High Peak from Trollmire.

so I guess we should stream from formatting the disk, downloading the ISO of an operation system, checking the md5, installing it, downloading the game, checking the md5, downloading any wanted addons, checking the md5s, and keep streaming until the game is finished, no off-time to prevent save file editing. But of course there're still ways to cheat