Ideas for Quests and Dungeons

All new ideas for the upcoming releases of ToME 4.x.x should be discussed here

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Susramanian
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Re: Ideas for Quests and Dungeons

#16 Post by Susramanian »

Concerning questions about motivation and trade and far-reaching consequences for the player's actions... I don't care. I play this game to kill things and take their stuff :)
If dismembering Gondor's High Mystic seems too significant to provoke such a blase response from The Elder, I'd go with what Darkgod suggested: make Tannen much less important. Maybe he's a mysterious citizen of Angolwen who recently moved to Minas Tirith, and nobody knows much about him, but the Elder figures that he's a good place to start your quest. Fortunately for everybody involved (except Tannen), the player reveals Tannen for the treacherous scumbag that he is, and they all come away from the experience without any sort of drastic changes in their day-to-day lives, and the broader workings of the nation of Gondor remain unchanged. Setting up relations between east and west is beyond the scope of this particular side quest, but could make for another interesting quest later.

Some thoughts about fun quest design:

1) Failable quests can be good, but ideally failure doesn't simply result in having game content permanently closed to the player. The player can 'fail' this quest, but doing so results in fun stuff: getting dumped in a pit full of demons or a mad wizard's dungeon. That's video game fun, anyway. As a bad example, take the lost merchant quest. Failing results in a portion of the game's content permanently lost. It would be more interesting if we could make something of our failure, like getting to loot the merchant or having a later opportunity to set somebody else up in his building. Experienced players might even have reason to deliberately fail the quest.

2) Decision-making in quests is fun, as long as all decisions are meaningful and lead someplace. For a bad example, take the escort quests. The quests begin with a decision, but why would you ever tell the poor injured Seer to take a hike? I'm not complaining about the escort quests (I love them!), I'm just pointing out the fact that they contain a decision that might as well not even be there.

3) Quests are their own rewards. Why do we help the jeweler purify the moonwhatever? Because we want the moonwhatever pure so we can get sweet loot out of it. Why do we want to do what Zemekkys tells us? Because we want that portal in place. This is something that ToME does well already. Bad examples are what you see in a lot of MMOs: "Hey, go collect 20 pieces of venison for me and I'll give you this magic dagger." Feeling like you're running trivial errands is lame and should be avoided. The player should want to get the quest done without a reward even being mentioned. On a related note, the random ego that The Elder gives you if you manage to kill the orc ambush is unnecessary and usually insultingly weak. I'd recommend removing it and making the lead orc drop something nice.

Hedrachi
Uruivellas
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Re: Ideas for Quests and Dungeons

#17 Post by Hedrachi »

Susramanian wrote:As a bad example, take the lost merchant quest. Failing results in a portion of the game's content permanently lost. It would be more interesting if we could make something of our failure, like getting to loot the merchant or having a later opportunity to set somebody else up in his building.
Working on this, maybe either one low-powered artifact, or a selection of ego items that he happened to have on his person when he was kidnapped? Wouldn't have the number of ego items and other goodies that he would have had at the store, and wouldn't have stuff with a prefix and a suffix, so the end result would be you'd get some nice stuff but not as nice as stuff you could find at the store.
Having satellite internet is a lot like relying on the processes described in those RFC's for your internet. Except, instead of needing to worry about statues interrupting your connection, this time you worry about the weather. I have satellite internet. Fun, no?

Nevuk
Thalore
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Re: Ideas for Quests and Dungeons

#18 Post by Nevuk »

I have a few ideas as far as the lost merchant quest goes. The first is that failing does not prevent his store from opening, it merely causes the prices to go up 200-300% (As he is forced to pay extortion rates). Unless you fail it in the sense that he winds up dead. Which I would suggest preventing the thieves from targetting him as uh.. he's one of their money makers. So you would ideally have to be the one that kills him.

Further, it has always felt like you should be forced to participate in a string of forced assassinations after this as you are in the bandit-lords debt for your life.

The player would either be able to participate in these or assault the bandit strong hold after participating in a few. However, the bandit strong-hold should be some ungodly difficult dungeon that scales with level while always having super out of depth traps. (As in, you walk in without detection and are hit for 300+ dmg from the first turn of poison ivy). Maybe it should just be a static level realistically, but I dunno.

Once a player knows where it is they should be allowed access to it in every game (What I envision is it basically being a spot on the world map without a > sign so it's basically a hidden dungeon), but those who go upon the assassination quests should receive some additional incentive if they go this route... like gaining access to the treasure room upon death of the bandit king (as they've seen it before. It's hidden too well for even the best mage to find).

But at the same time, they should be rewarded even more heavily if they just complete the string of assassinations. It DOES pay to be evil. Assassinations themselves could be either random quests along the lines of "Kill x on level y of dungeon z" (with these levels automatically having the people beg you to take them out alive, being like sun paladins or warriors) or they could be specifically planned out like "Go and kill the king of minas tirith." and involve entering the castle and trying to kill the king. These could alternately involve sneaking (which would let the rogue class have far more incentive to take stealth) or killing everyone.
A combination of the two types of assassinations feels like it would be the way to go. (Complete a fairly random number of assassinations for a special assassination, then 2-5 more for the next special one)>
It's just always seemed like a string that go in so many potentially interesting ways.

Susramanian
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Re: Ideas for Quests and Dungeons

#19 Post by Susramanian »

I was thrilled to finally make it to the Zemekkys quest in the Far East, even though the Armory killed me handily. Are there plans to implement the second part of the quest in Middle Earth? If it has any glaring flaws preventing it from being included, I'm willing to make drastic changes. I pretty much just made it up as I wrote, so I'm not attached to it in its current form.

darkgod
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Re: Ideas for Quests and Dungeons

#20 Post by darkgod »

Well if you could update it with the changes about not the mage not being the royal consel it's good I think.
It's not in yet simply because it'll take some time to implement :)
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Susramanian
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Re: Ideas for Quests and Dungeons

#21 Post by Susramanian »

I edited the dialogs with the Minas Tirith Elder to change Tannen's role in Gondor. Now he's just some mysterious guest from Angolwen. Oh, and I included Burb Lulls's mop line, as that is by far the best idea in this whole thread.

Repton
Archmage
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Re: Ideas for Quests and Dungeons

#22 Post by Repton »

Quick comment on the Vor Armoury: When I got there, I killed everyone, and found the athame. I knew I was there for a diamond as well, and there was one room I hadn't yet explored: Track showed me at least four level 92 greater multihued wyrms inside. I was pretty certain I'd be killed instantly, but I still needed to find the diamond...

...anyway, I checked the source code, and discovered that it wasn't there at all. But I think if there is going to be a room of instant death, there should be some way for the player to learn that it is completely optional.

Susramanian
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Re: Ideas for Quests and Dungeons

#23 Post by Susramanian »

I deny all responsibility for that horrible room full of 90+ multi-hued dragons. They were an unpleasant (and fatal) surprise to my best beta12 character :)

darkgod
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Re: Ideas for Quests and Dungeons

#24 Post by darkgod »

Hey you give me ideas and I *ENHANCE* them :)

Remember when you peopel told me "bah dragons are wuss!".. yeah ;)
[tome] joylove: You can't just release an expansion like one would release a Kraken XD
--
[tome] phantomfrettchen: your ability not to tease anyone is simply stunning ;)

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