You can consider existing talents before making new ones.
The only reason both wet and shock exist is because two rather different status effects check the same immunity.
Cold/Ice ideas and the "Wet" effect...
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Re: Cold/Ice ideas and the "Wet" effect...
My feedback meter decays into coding. Give me feedback and I make mods.
Re: Cold/Ice ideas and the "Wet" effect...
I literally cannot disagree more with you on this.Atarlost wrote:
I'm also pretty strongly opposed to fancy form factors like the mana and aether trees use. Bolt is okay if the projectile speed is high. Beam (invariant range) and Ball are better. Cone is good but only with heavy investment and therefore isn't first talent material.
Arcane/Aether is far and away my favorite Archmage element, and I usually support it with Water/Ice or vice-versa. I find Wildfire so insanely boring that I never bother with it.
Considering that, I can't endorse making more of that style. Fireflash is arguably my least-favorite skill in the entire game. I understand that it's useful and I don't advocate getting rid of it but I certainly don't want more of it.
As I said before, if everything a beam, a ball, or a cone then you don't need multiple elements as they're functional the same… with different color schemes. What's the point of that?
Also, I think you're underestimating the utility of Frozen Ground, Glacial Vapors, and Shivgoroth. Cold is hard to get started but even by itself, it's very strong. I don't think it needs much of a tweak to be on par with Wildfire. More so, it's close-quarter combat makes it quite unique. Rather than changing that, why not improve it?
A long time ago, I had suggested to Glacial Vapors reduce movement speed… I think those are the kinds of effects that water/ice needs. Give the glass a snowstorm kind of feel… give it synergy with other elements (or at least the one that makes sense).
Re: Cold/Ice ideas and the "Wet" effect...
How about something like:
Blinding Fog: Summon forth a thick fog of freezing cold water in a zone of radius (ETL) (possibly self-centered?) for (ETL+2) turns, dealing X cold damage every turn, causing Wet, and reducing the vision radius of all enemies by (4+RTL). Additionally, every turn (1+ETL/2) phantom forms will condense within the fog. These forms last (ETL) turns, have (Player Max HP*ETL/10) HP, 100% cold and darkness affinity, and 50% light resistance. They are also immune to all physical and mental status effects, as well as disease. At talent level 5, they gain the spell Water Bolt, as well as spellpower and physical power equal to the caster's spellpower. Only a maximum of (1+ETL) Fog Forms can exist at a time
Basically, this would be a major distraction spell, with mild-to-moderate DoT until talent level 5, at which point the fog forms can start doing damage. Those fog forms will end up having pretty low HP (10-60% of the player's max), and probably no noticeable armor, defense, or any resists other than those mentioned. But, given that it also drastically lowers the target's sight radius as long as they're in the fog, those distractions are likely to be the main targets of the enemy, keeping them in the fog.
Additionally, if any other spells could freeze wet targets, this spell's Wet effect applied consistently over time would be really nice.
Maybe make the whole cold/ice tree set focused on self-centered powers, like this (if self-centered), Ice Storm, maybe an ice-breath cone attack, and some others. Additionally, if the radius of most of these extends beyond the radius of Tidal Wave, then Tidal Wave is still a useful spell for it's knockback power.
Blinding Fog: Summon forth a thick fog of freezing cold water in a zone of radius (ETL) (possibly self-centered?) for (ETL+2) turns, dealing X cold damage every turn, causing Wet, and reducing the vision radius of all enemies by (4+RTL). Additionally, every turn (1+ETL/2) phantom forms will condense within the fog. These forms last (ETL) turns, have (Player Max HP*ETL/10) HP, 100% cold and darkness affinity, and 50% light resistance. They are also immune to all physical and mental status effects, as well as disease. At talent level 5, they gain the spell Water Bolt, as well as spellpower and physical power equal to the caster's spellpower. Only a maximum of (1+ETL) Fog Forms can exist at a time
Basically, this would be a major distraction spell, with mild-to-moderate DoT until talent level 5, at which point the fog forms can start doing damage. Those fog forms will end up having pretty low HP (10-60% of the player's max), and probably no noticeable armor, defense, or any resists other than those mentioned. But, given that it also drastically lowers the target's sight radius as long as they're in the fog, those distractions are likely to be the main targets of the enemy, keeping them in the fog.
Additionally, if any other spells could freeze wet targets, this spell's Wet effect applied consistently over time would be really nice.
Maybe make the whole cold/ice tree set focused on self-centered powers, like this (if self-centered), Ice Storm, maybe an ice-breath cone attack, and some others. Additionally, if the radius of most of these extends beyond the radius of Tidal Wave, then Tidal Wave is still a useful spell for it's knockback power.
Re: Cold/Ice ideas and the "Wet" effect...
The archmage is not a CQC class. It doesn't have the HP and the tanking is clumsy and when I complained about it everyone said they weren't supposed to actually use it for tanking.Delmuir wrote:Also, I think you're underestimating the utility of Frozen Ground, Glacial Vapors, and Shivgoroth. Cold is hard to get started but even by itself, it's very strong. I don't think it needs much of a tweak to be on par with Wildfire. More so, it's close-quarter combat makes it quite unique. Rather than changing that, why not improve it?
The psionic subclasses are CQC classes. They have mostly short ranged powers and mostly hands free tanking that gives them the durability for the job. The archmage is typified by their range 10 first strike abilities like Earthen Missiles and the tribeam and freeze.
The elements can have diverse mechanics without using bad form factors. Fire's theme is already DoT, though it's not implemented entirely coherently. That leaves room for tempo (ie. chaining for increased damage), straight debuffing at low damage (as long as the debuffs are good enough to make up for poor damage at low levels or the first spell is exempt from the theme), debuffing through chaining, and straight damage. The debuffing themes can be subdivided according to the debuffs they use. If, for instance Earth got blind and damage reduction (wyrmic earth blinds and damage reduction seems to be associated with hampered vision so it's a workable theme) that wouldn't step on the toes of Storm's daze obsession.
If you absolutely must have bad form factors spread them out so that fire doesn't have all the good spells while everyone else is left with gimmicky trash. That's another reason the elements need to be tackled as a group.
Digitochracy
n. 1. technocracy. 2. government by the numbers. 3. rule by people with the longest fingers.
n. 1. technocracy. 2. government by the numbers. 3. rule by people with the longest fingers.
Re: Cold/Ice ideas and the "Wet" effect...
There is also a limited number of possible shapes and forms that are useful.
My feedback meter decays into coding. Give me feedback and I make mods.
Re: Cold/Ice ideas and the "Wet" effect...
I don't know what CQC means…
Yes, there are a limited number of useful forms but I'm reasonably sure it's more than three.
As for tanking… I'm not sure what to make of this. The Archmage is arguably the best tank in the game. With care, they can stand toe-to-toe with any enemy in the game.
I agree that range is one of their virtues and I do not endorse limiting it more than is necessary. That's why I suggested a skill that maxes dramatic use of that range… no spell or skill in the game makes use of range better than the Rainstorm concept. I consider it a vast improvement over either Tidal Wave or Glacial Vapors…
My point is that another beam or ball or cone is dull as hell. Also, the wet effect is irritating in how limited it is. I honestly don't see why the Water category doesn't have three water skills and Shivgoroth, which can then at bonuses to each of those skills. That strikes me as a unique and effective mechanic.
Example (although I'm not stuck on my ideas… I'm just using them to illustrate my point):
Rainstorm gets hailstorm…
Tidal Wave (if you kept it over GV) could get a lingering ice-sheet effect that reduces enemy movement speed and increases yours.
Glacial Vapors (if kept) could allow for enhanced freeze and/or damage or some other effect…
The point is that water-to-ice equals extra effect/damage not replaced by…
With improved situational movement speed, Ice Storm and Glacial Vapors could become devastating skills in combination with Shatter or shatter-effect (as I proposed it) or Uttercold.
The point being, there's a way to make the short-range nature of some of the current skills work for you by mitigating that limited range with other enhancements rather than just replacing everything with a beam, cone, etc.
Yes, there are a limited number of useful forms but I'm reasonably sure it's more than three.
As for tanking… I'm not sure what to make of this. The Archmage is arguably the best tank in the game. With care, they can stand toe-to-toe with any enemy in the game.
I agree that range is one of their virtues and I do not endorse limiting it more than is necessary. That's why I suggested a skill that maxes dramatic use of that range… no spell or skill in the game makes use of range better than the Rainstorm concept. I consider it a vast improvement over either Tidal Wave or Glacial Vapors…
My point is that another beam or ball or cone is dull as hell. Also, the wet effect is irritating in how limited it is. I honestly don't see why the Water category doesn't have three water skills and Shivgoroth, which can then at bonuses to each of those skills. That strikes me as a unique and effective mechanic.
Example (although I'm not stuck on my ideas… I'm just using them to illustrate my point):
Rainstorm gets hailstorm…
Tidal Wave (if you kept it over GV) could get a lingering ice-sheet effect that reduces enemy movement speed and increases yours.
Glacial Vapors (if kept) could allow for enhanced freeze and/or damage or some other effect…
The point is that water-to-ice equals extra effect/damage not replaced by…
With improved situational movement speed, Ice Storm and Glacial Vapors could become devastating skills in combination with Shatter or shatter-effect (as I proposed it) or Uttercold.
The point being, there's a way to make the short-range nature of some of the current skills work for you by mitigating that limited range with other enhancements rather than just replacing everything with a beam, cone, etc.
Re: Cold/Ice ideas and the "Wet" effect...
CQC = Close Quarters Combat.
Rainstorm is a ball. A persistent ball that doesn't always affect every tile, but its still a ball.
What I'm saying is, just because it is a ball, doesn't mean it can't be interesting.
Flame Shock + Burning Wake creates the only triangular ground effect in the game, but it is still just a cone.
Shivgoroth Shape getting increased movement speed though the cold cloud doesn't seem to make sense thematically.
How about the ability to slide quickly on frozen ground?
To get short ranged attacks to be viable you either need good mobility or good toughness, because you are going to spend time on positioning. This will need more than just Shivgoroth Shape, even with increased movement speed through a cloud.
Rainstorm is a ball. A persistent ball that doesn't always affect every tile, but its still a ball.
What I'm saying is, just because it is a ball, doesn't mean it can't be interesting.
Flame Shock + Burning Wake creates the only triangular ground effect in the game, but it is still just a cone.
Shivgoroth Shape getting increased movement speed though the cold cloud doesn't seem to make sense thematically.
How about the ability to slide quickly on frozen ground?
To get short ranged attacks to be viable you either need good mobility or good toughness, because you are going to spend time on positioning. This will need more than just Shivgoroth Shape, even with increased movement speed through a cloud.
My feedback meter decays into coding. Give me feedback and I make mods.
Re: Cold/Ice ideas and the "Wet" effect...
Ice pin bowling: if three or more enemies are frozen/pinned on adjacent tiles more than 5 tiles away, you can hurl a huge iceball towards them that does cold damage and causes knockback in a radius of 3. If you score a strike (all targets dead or knocked back), you get a temporary surge of spellpower and a free extra iceball (i.e., the skill's cooldown is reset.) If you score a spare (missed one enemy at most), you only get the spellpower boost.
