Sun Paladin Tweaks

[Grakor456]

So our Sun-Pals are one of my favorite classes conceptually, and the class I've probably played the most (even if the only win I have on one is in the Arena-60.) While I don't think the class is underpowered, I do think that the current design could be described as...well, either "annoying" or "dull," it really depends. A few problems I have with the class right now...

1. Positive generation is a bit frustrating to deal with. Doubly so if you're an undead Sun-Pal and you can't just spam Bathe In Light everywhere. A big part of this are the abilities that generate positive themselves: Celestial/Light abilities has a heal and a debuff-cleanse that you're not likely to just up and cast for the positive, and Celestial/Sun abilities are weak and have a pretty bad category multiplier. Either way, this makes it difficult to make consistent use of Crusade and Brandish.

2. Paladins have few real build options. Generally, you pretty much can look at the vault and see every one building much the same way. They only have three locked categories, one of which is Survival and another is picked up almost entirely for Rush.

I did a quick search and found a few suggestions for these guys, so I kind of wanted to collect some of those ideas here.

1. Have Weapon/Shield of Light generate positive instead of consuming it. It still wouldn't be enough to fuel Crusades/Brandishes on their own, but would help keep positive from being a huge obstacle.

2. Raise the category multiplier on Celestial/Sun. Might encourage more points to be spent there.

3. Add a new locked tree for them. Celestial/Glyphs was suggested in another thread and would probably work with the Paladin's defensive, "hold the line" style, but something new tailored to them would work, too.

Thoughts?

[HousePet]

Suggestions didn't get anywhere, so I made an addon.

[Grakor456]

Suggestions didn't get anywhere, so I made an addon.

Shatter my dreams and make me feel silly at the same time.

[nukularpower]

I definitely agree that Sun Paladins could use a look, as they seem rather weak and boring to play

[Grakor456]

I definitely agree that Sun Paladins could use a look, as they seem rather weak and boring to play

Dunno if I'd say they're weak, exactly, though they are definitely awkwardly constructed. I had a recent Ghoul Sun-Pal winner, and while I enjoyed the run for the most part, I always felt like I was wrestling with the class to make it work. Positive generation is definitely the worst offender for that: It's just impossible to have Shield of Light and Weapon of Light sustained, AND use Crusade and Brandish in any form of standard ability rotation. All too often I found myself just playing like a Bulwark with fancy sustains, leaning on Shield Slam and Assault for the vast majority of my damage.

Thinking about it, I'd also say Chants design is really awkward (and I assume the same is also true for Hymns.) You're never going to pump more than one chant, so having them all in the same tree is awkward and wastes points if you're going for anything other than Chant of Fortitude. Redesigning the tree to be more similar to, say, Cursed Gloom (having one sustain and three passives that augment it) would probably work far better.

Honestly, though, I'd just settle for Weapon/Shield of Light generating positive instead of consuming it. There are probably other classes that are more in dire need of complete overhauls...Temporal Warden springs to mind immediately.

[Seian Verian]

Redesigning the tree to be more similar to, say, Cursed Gloom (having one sustain and three passives that augment it) would probably work far better.

I'd like to say that I really like this idea, actually. I'd like it even more on Hymns- The final talent in Hymns is so much more useful for an Anorithil than anything else that 99% of the time you'll just be tossing in three wasted points to get to Hymn of Moonlight.

[Sirrocco]

For hymns/chants - the aspect of "pick one" seems like it's part of the point. Perhaps, though... maybe a bit of both, so that the points dont' feel totally wasted? Each would give a significant benefit when sustained, and a smaller, passive benefit regardless of chant/hymn chosen.

[Grakor456]

For hymns/chants - the aspect of "pick one" seems like it's part of the point. Perhaps, though... maybe a bit of both, so that the points dont' feel totally wasted? Each would give a significant benefit when sustained, and a smaller, passive benefit regardless of chant/hymn chosen.

I'd argue that the instant cast time and low cooldowns on chants and hymns implies that celestials are supposed to be swapping them on the fly...it's just that never happens because no one has enough generic points for that. Considering I'd probably say Sun-Pals are probably closer to the lower end of the balance scale, I don't think that buff would honestly break them. If nothing else, though, perhaps all points in chants/hymns could be tallied to determine the retributive light/darkness damage?

[AlexanderR]

It should just be possible to level any talent in tree without learning rest. Will also make chants more attractive as escort reward. AFAIK, it is easy to implement.

[The Revanchist]

You'd just modify the prerequisites to not include the earlier skills. Which, if I'm not mistaken, is easy enough.