[1.0.1] Dream Hammer triggers on hit enemy talents

[jenx]

I throw Dream Hammer across the room at a drem, and I start bleeding from carbon spikes. Then at another critter, I get acid splash. From 10 spaces away!

I think Dream Hammer should not trigger this. If I hit 10 creatures twice (on the way back) and each has 100 on hit defence (very common in late game), I'd do myself 2000 hp damage from my own offensive talent !!!!

So I think this is a bug. Similarly Dream Echoes should only give on hit from the actual enemy hit, not all the others in the radius.

[jenx]

ok - I"ved done more testing with this on nightmare mode, and it is a seriously severe problem. It makes dream hammer almost impossible to use in many places, as multiple on hit damage from enemies destroys me. The only similar talent with this much potential backfire damage is frenzy with dual wield, which can land you 8 on hits back in return. But as I said, with the return journey, I"m getting 12-16 on hits regularly. Or things like three luminous horrors, 6 lots of 60-80 on hit. I love the idea of dream hammer toss, but I think this needs to be fixed.

[edge2054]

Not a bug.

Every ranged melee attack operates this way and has for a long time (see the Sun Paladin talent Wave of Power).

I realize this is especially an issue with Solipsists because they hit multiple enemies at once but the precedence is there. I asked Darkgod about changing it so that on hit effects check for distance and fail if it's greater than one but he didn't see a need for it.

In my opinion, if this should be changed, that would still be the best fix.

[Hachem_Muche]

This really should be changed.

It also affects counter-attacking (so the defender gets a chance to hit you with a range 1 ability from across the room), and defensive-throw (defender can knock attacker down and stun them outside of grappling range), including the effects of greater weapon focus, and other melee attack bonuses/effects.

Besides not making sense thematically, it creates playability issues in the late game or at higher difficulty levels, where these reactive effects can be devastating, potentially one-shotting the player after using one ranged(melee) attack.

Note: I have revised the reactive attack mechanics to respect range limits in my Infinite500 addon.

[stinkstink]

There's actually a funny way you can turn this into an advantage: Get a shield that resists their return damage, then block before you use hammer toss (or the turn after tossing if it won't hit them before your next move.) Enjoy your counterstrikes.

[SageAcrin]

I think that, if there's real problems with melee on-hit effects, that just excluding ranged attacks from them isn't the answer.

If anything, including more ranged attacks and nerfing their impact would seem better, or making similar risks for mages.

Mind you, I'm not 100% sure there are real problems with them...

[jenx]

I think there are real problems. As I said, on nightmare mode, dream toss is simply unusable with many enemies. It is too risky. Alternatively, I could Inspect every critter and its defense tab, but this is way too tedious. and counterstrike, reactions across the room also seem bizarre to me, and hard to predict and so manage.