Spellsword (formerly Addon reworking Arcane Blade Class)

[Grey]

Oh hmm, I didn't read it properly :P

[Hirumakai]

First off, thanks very much for the feedback.

I also talked to Grey and Frumple in IRC last night, and I wanted to thank them along with Edge and Rectifier for useful discussions.

New version up, v18 on the addons page.

Things changed (Note SP = Spell power):
Magical Combat
1) Arcane Stance and Arcane Destruction renamed Elemental Stance and Elemental Destruction
2) Elemental Stance now provides a mastery bonus to the elemental stances, effectively giving them more talent levels rather than being factored explicitly into their calculations.
3) Arcane Combat now has a +1 effective talent level to boost low end damage.

Windcutter
1)Tornado Strike Buff duration changed to 1/1/2/2/3 turns from a fixed 2 turns.
2) Whirlwind strike weapon damage changed to 0.25,1.25 from 0.75,1.25.
3)Windstorm no longer causes cross-tier effects for those who fail saves.
4) Changed Air stance effects from (SP/10) * (1 + Arcane Stance Level) to combatTalentSpellDamage(t,10,50)

Blazebrand
1) Changed Fire stance physical boost from (SP/10) * (1 + Arcane Stance level) to combatTalentSpellDamage(t,10,50)
2) Changed Fire stance crit boost from SP/40 * (1+Arcane Stance level) to combatTalentSpellDamage(t, 2,20)

Lifetide
1) Changed Healing water to 20 + combatTalentSpellDamage(t,20,500) from 40 + combatTalentSpellDamage(t,10,520)
2) Healing waters no longer can critical, however if healing exceeds needs, it creates a temporary buff for 1/1/2/2/3 turns which takes any excess healing and will apply it if needed within that time. I.e. the Effects heals 100, you only need 67, it provides an effect that will heal for up to 33 hit points next round.
This is a heal effect, not a regeneration effect.
3) Water Stance heal mod changes from SP/1000 * (1 + Arcane Stance level) to combatTalentSpellDamage(t,5,40)/100
4) Water stance heal per hit changed from SP/20 * (1 + Arcane Stance level) to combatTalentSpellDamage(t,2,20)

Stoneshield
1) Earth Stance armor changed from SP/ 10 * (1 + Arcane Stance Level) to combatTalentSpellDamage(t,5,40)
2) Earth Stance resistance changed from SP / 50 * (1 + Arcane Stance level) to combatTalentSpellDamage(t,1,10)

Aegis
Tree removed from the class.

Things not this rework but are being pondered:
Change Inferno Cleave 3 point effect to a 10/20/30/40/50% heal factor for 3 turns (like a shorter duration Bleeding Edge with less damage and of a fire flavor)

Remove the spell/air, spell/earth, spell/fire, spell/water trees? No one seems to take them, and the synergy is not that strong - but begs the question, what other closed class trees should it have?
The advanced spell trees were suggested, but many of those effects would be duplicated by existing talents or don't synergize that well either.

Aegis could in principle be put back in, but only after serious surgery on the elemental melee trees, reducing defensive power.

[Hirumakai]

Version 19 is out.

Fixed a bug with Master Blade where it was replacing *defense* rather than *ranged defense*. The bug was introduced when the addon was made 3.9.38 compatible. This meant the class had Bulwark levels in both defense and armor (vs melee), which was unintended. It now only replaces ranged defense with accuracy (if accuracy is higher).

Also fixed a bug with Whirlwind Teleport's info. It was displaying an incorrect value.

Been thinking about some ideas for replacing the basic spell/element trees for locked trees. Some ocked advanced tree ideas to replace them:

The "fighting fire with fire" type advanced trees:

Mage hunter or Firestorm tree
A air/fire themed advanced tree designed to fight casters, utilizing mana more. Master Blade could be removed from the Arcane Veteran tree and moved here for example.
The idea being the character has learned magic specifically to deal with mages.

Pack hunter or Stoneriver tree
An earth/water themed defensive tree utilizing stamina more, designed for survival in large packs of melee.

Other ideas:
An advanced Arcane Element tree, providing some sort of Arcane stance and related spell-meta abilites.
An advanced Rune using tree, providing interaction with attack runes. We know the class is virtually always going to have a Manasurge rune - but maybe we could provide ranged attacks through runes rather than spells. Or apply a rune to a weapon with some interesting interaction.

[NEHZ]

Been thinking about some ideas for replacing the basic spell/element trees for locked trees. Some ocked advanced tree ideas to replace them:

Goodbye Ice Storm, I"ll miss you.

Typo: Elemental Stance - you missed the word 'by' in 'is activated Air Strike'

[Grey]

I think they really need some of the technique trees locked. Right now the class feels too magey for a Warrior subclass. The tree with Rush in it would be especially useful for those that don't invest much in Water and Air.

[Hirumakai]

I think they really need some of the technique trees locked. Right now the class feels too magey for a Warrior subclass. The tree with Rush in it would be especially useful for those that don't invest much in Water and Air.

I'm willing to provide the tree locked in the next release (and will do so), but my prediction is either people won't use it, or will actually be doubling up with the very similar skills from Water and Air, because they were looking for more of the exact same abilities.

The abilities provided by the Active Combat Technique tree are already integrated into the Elemental trees and stances:

1) Air Stance (Accuracy boost like Precise Strikes) and Fire stance (crit boost like Precise Strikes)
2) Tidal Rush (Does the same thing as Rush but with more AoE and less Daze)
3) Tornado Strike (does something very similar to Perfect Strike)
4) Mark of Fire (which was designed to give similar damage performance, although not as much utility, as Blinding Speed).

I guess my question is, why isn't Tidal Rush a sufficient replacement for Rush? Is Tornado strike not enough of a to-hit buff? Or is it a flavor issue?

Way back when, I had suggested the idea of melee strikes reducing spell casting speed, cumulatively until a spell was cast. Perhaps after 3 or 4 swings, a spell could be cast instantly. However, people talked me out of it, since they felt it would interrupt the flow.

So what I did instead was literally make the attack skills a Technique + Spell.

Tidal Rush = Rush + Tidal Wave
Whirlwind Teleport = Teleport + Whirlwind
Elemental Strikes = Stunning blow like attack + Frozen Ground, Nova, Blastwave, etc

So the flavor is supposed to be the fact that attacks are in some sense both techniques and spells at the same time. I'd prefer to put the trees back under techniques, but flag them with is_spell and no_silence type flags, but Darkgod said to put them under spells, so thats where they stay.

Looking at power level, do you feel it is okay to have access to 2 Rushes, plus Whirlwind Teleport (and possibly 5/5 phase door)? Do I need to redo the elemental stances, to account for the possibility of doubling up effects? Air Stance + Precise Strikes late game is probably +80 accuracy all the time or Precise Strikes + Fire Stance is 40+% crit.

I'm just trying to figure out the ramifications of adding that tree to class.

Been thinking about some ideas for replacing the basic spell/element trees for locked trees. Some ocked advanced tree ideas to replace them:

Goodbye Ice Storm, I"ll miss you.

Typo: Elemental Stance - you missed the word 'by' in 'is activated Air Strike'

Oh, you've been using the Spell trees? That provides a data point in contrast. Do you felt it was worth the category point investments? Or did it feel like a no synergy tack on? I'd been looking through the addon vault and hadn't seen anyone using them.

Also, thanks for the typo location.

[Grey]

I guess my question is, why isn't Tidal Rush a sufficient replacement for Rush? Is Tornado strike not enough of a to-hit buff? Or is it a flavor issue?

Partly flavour, and partly options. Tidal Rush has very much the feel of a spell, whilst rush feels like a gritty fighter ability. Also Rush uses just stamina, so if going sustain heavy on one's mana bar it can be a nicer option to use. Having both isn't imbalancing I don't think - they're still expensive in both resources and cooldown, and getting all those options requires significant class point investment.

Precise Strikes + bleh isn't overpowering, since there's a very definite cost to using Precise Strike, especially for a class reliant on frequent sword swings. And other classes can get just as high crit or more. Plus the availability of a crit-focused build is not a bad thing.

Blinding Speed and Perfect Strike are both useful additions to the class, though obviously would force one to choose carefully where to invest class points as you can't have everything. Which is a good thing :P

[Hirumakai]

Partly flavour, and partly options. Tidal Rush has very much the feel of a spell, whilst rush feels like a gritty fighter ability.

Fair enough. You'd like to see a clear separation of spells and techniques.

I mostly think of Tidal Rush using the already existing enchantments on the character's sword in a novel way. The Arcane Blade prepares the strike by holding the sword with both hands to his side, pointing low and behind. And then holds on with all his might as the blade becomes a high powered jet of water, blasting the Blade forward towards his enemy, while leaving a literal tidal wave of water behind. Finally upon arcing down on his target, he swings with all his strength, trying to perform the Herculean task of redirecting a river. As the water blade passes through its target, the water freezes, holding it in place for the back swing as the blade turns to fire...

I think of it taking both spell know how and sheer grit to use an uncontrolled Tidal Wave to launch yourself through the air at your enemy

Also Rush uses just stamina, so if going sustain heavy on one's mana bar it can be a nicer option to use.

Actually, Tidal Rush only uses stamina, like Rush. 2 skills in each of the trees uses stamina only and 2 use mana only. I had considered making them cost both mana and stamina, but that just leads to disadvantages of both and the benefits of neither - in that case might as well have a single resource bar and drop the other.

So the Elemental Strikes, Tidal Rush, Tornado Strike, Inferno Cleave and Sandblast all require stamina only.

Having both isn't imbalancing I don't think - they're still expensive in both resources and cooldown, and getting all those options requires significant class point investment.

Precise Strikes + bleh isn't overpowering, since there's a very definite cost to using Precise Strike, especially for a class reliant on frequent sword swings. And other classes can get just as high crit or more. Plus the availability of a crit-focused build is not a bad thing.

Blinding Speed and Perfect Strike are both useful additions to the class, though obviously would force one to choose carefully where to invest class points as you can't have everything. Which is a good thing

We'll find out in playtest. I can definitely see certain combinations being popular, namely Windstorm + Mark of Fire + Blinding Speed.

[NEHZ]

Goodbye Ice Storm, I"ll miss you.

Oh, you've been using the Spell trees? That provides a data point in contrast. Do you felt it was worth the category point investments? Or did it feel like a no synergy tack on? I'd been looking through the addon vault and hadn't seen anyone using them.

Also, thanks for the typo location.

I havn't actually used it on an Arcane Blade yet. I recently had an archmage winner that was based on Ice Storm and I believe the spell could be even more usefull on an AB because he gets up close and personal.
The reason I havn't done it yet is mostly becuase I didn't want to play two characters in sequence that play too similair, though I'm probably going to try it soon to see how differently it works on an AB.
The reluctence I'm having for choosing the spell trees is mostly because it costs a Catogry Point and the AB is less Spell Power based than the Archmage. The water tree however has two skills (tier 3 and 4) that have enormous damage potentional even with some less Spell Power during battles that last long enough. I don't consider the other spell trees at all.

[yufra]

One thing that I have not seen mentioned is the effect of Silence on the various abilities. I have only played a little bit of the addon and plan on doing more this weekend, but here are some thinking points:

• Should the AB have technique-only skills (unaffected by Silence)
• Should spell sustains be affected by Silence (this has global implications for the game)

[Frumple]

As to the latter... most shouldn't. The only arcane sustains that I'd say would be effected by silence, at least at the moment, are the chants and hymns. Those should probably break, or at least be suppressed while silence is active. The rest seem to not have a vocal component to sustaining the effect.

As for the former... well, maybe. Silence seems to be a pretty specific concept -- if AB's stamina only talents don't have a somatic component, well...

Might even be able to spread that out more carefully, really. Casters in general should probably have at least one or two talents they can use without their voice, I'd think, and non-arcane users that have talents with an integral vocal component should probably be shut down appropriately as well. I think that already happens a bit, dunnit? With the warshouts and suchlike.

There might be room for a higher level anti-arcane debuff, though -- null magic, or something to that effect, that universally disrupts arcane effects instead of just vocal ones.

[jacobdm]

As another data point, I do frequently take the fire tree, though purely for flameshock. That ranged stun is very useful when my rush skill is on cooldown (I typically only take whirlwind teleport or tidal rush, as I always feel crunched for skill points). On the other hand, once the "firestorm" tree is out, it may have something that will have a similar utility in shutting down ranged enemies so I can get in range of them.

As for silence, it would make sense to me that the AB abilities that only cost stamina wouldn't be effected by silience, and the mana-based ones would. I also agree that silence shouldn't effect sustains, but only prevent casting of spells. I haven't really thought about what that would do for balance though. But it really doesn't make sense in general for a class that is supposed to be a warrior to be completely shut down by being silenced.

As for vocal vs non-vocal spells, it could be an interesting way to go with it, but that would have to be a more global change. One thought about this though: Assuming it is generally known that enemies can silence you, wouldn't it make sense for archmages, who are supposed to be masters of magic, to develop a non-vocal spell that gets rid of the silence effect? (This is purely for a lore standpoint, as it would probably defeat the point of silence in gameplay.)

[Hirumakai]

I havn't actually used it on an Arcane Blade yet. I recently had an archmage winner that was based on Ice Storm and I believe the spell could be even more usefull on an AB because he gets up close and personal.
The reason I havn't done it yet is mostly becuase I didn't want to play two characters in sequence that play too similair, though I'm probably going to try it soon to see how differently it works on an AB.
The reluctence I'm having for choosing the spell trees is mostly because it costs a Catogry Point and the AB is less Spell Power based than the Archmage. The water tree however has two skills (tier 3 and 4) that have enormous damage potentional even with some less Spell Power during battles that last long enough. I don't consider the other spell trees at all.

I appreciate you offering to take the time and try it. I always can use more data points. In regard to the spell power being lower, the Arcane Prowess passive actually mitigates that alot. You can get Str/Dex stated items, and it still helps spell power quite a bit. I'd argue the 1.3 vs 1.1 tree mastery will be more a hit than the lower spell power. I'd guess they might be 20-30% less effective overall.

• Should the AB have technique-only skills (unaffected by Silence)
• Should spell sustains be affected by Silence (this has global implications for the game)

I appreciate you play testing the class.

In regards to the first bullet point, my answer is "Probably yes".

Ideally I'd like to see the 2 stamina attack talents in each tree be considered useable under silence (i.e. Elemental strikes (and by association stances) as well as Tornado Strike, Inferno Cleave, Sandblast, and Tidal Rush. These I view as taking advantage of enchantments already placed upon the weapon: I.e. You're wielding a magical sword continuously jetting cold water, and have figure out some physical tricks you can do with it - like Jet propulsion.

However, that final decision is up to Darkgod. He asked me to move the talents from Techniques to Spells, and I have done so. I'd have to convince him first that a split of the talents in that way is worthwhile, and is also compatible with his game vision. He might also consider even the stamina only talents too powerful to not have Silence check them.

Although, now that you mention it, I do need to clean up the Arcane Combat trigger code, since it can occur even when silenced. Its in a technique tree, although I've given that particular talent the is_spell=true, and reflectable=true flags. I seemed to have forgotten the no_silence flag on it however. In addition, the triggers themselves do not check for the silence condition - something I probably should change. If anything is "casting a spell" of the Arcane blade talents, that would be Arcane Combat.

In regards to the second bullet point, if Silence affects spell sustains, then it should logically affect all arcane powered equipment as well. If a Fiery Hands type sustain doesn't work under silence, why should a mace that does fire damage via arcane power work? Since I don't think we want to go there, it probably should leave sustains alone.

There might be room for a higher level anti-arcane debuff, though -- null magic, or something to that effect, that universally disrupts arcane effects instead of just vocal ones.

That I could see. Although we do have magic dispelling effects like "Corrupted Negation", "Dispel Magic" and so on. I certainly feel it when my AB's get most of their sustains stripped by whatever Dread Masters do.

That leads to the question: Should there be anti-nature effects? Anti-technique/ crafted by a master effects? Anti-psionics? Anti-hate/curse thing?

As another data point, I do frequently take the fire tree, though purely for flameshock. That ranged stun is very useful when my rush skill is on cooldown (I typically only take whirlwind teleport or tidal rush, as I always feel crunched for skill points). On the other hand, once the "firestorm" tree is out, it may have something that will have a similar utility in shutting down ranged enemies so I can get in range of them.

Good to know. So you're basically using it as an extra AoE stun. Have you played around with the Rolling Earth talent? It is also produces an AoE stun, but instead of dealing damage, brings enemies closer to you. It sounds like that would also fill the roll you are using Flameshock for. However, I'm glad to hear you taking the spell trees, and finding them working with the other talents.

I'll see what I can do for ideas (and possibly coding) up some advanced Arcane Blade trees. Do people like the idea of a "How to fight mages" and "How to fight fighters" trees? Or have other suggestions for advanced trees? Or just want me to leave the trees alone as they are now?

One thought about this though: Assuming it is generally known that enemies can silence you, wouldn't it make sense for archmages, who are supposed to be masters of magic, to develop a non-vocal spell that gets rid of the silence effect? (This is purely for a lore standpoint, as it would probably defeat the point of silence in gameplay.)

Well, they clearly create magical equipment with Silence resistance.

[Hirumakai]

Major code rework to make it much more superload friendly, and hence a higher chance to work with other addons, although there's still a few functions which are overloaded.

Also added the combat-techniques active tree (Precise Strikes, Rush, Perfect Strikes, Blinding Speed). Its initially a closed tree. Please try it out and see how it syngerizes with the rest of the class.

The spell/element trees are still in for this version.

Wind Storm also modified to scale with Spell power.

Arcane stamina was reworked so it doesn't activate/deactivate every time another sustain is turned on/off.

Still trying to come up with ideas for Firestorm/Stoneriver advanced trees.

A possible replacement for Master Blade being moved out of Arcane Veteran is a talent which allows stamina to be used in the place of mana - perhaps as a temporary effect (similar to how Adrenaline Surge allows life to be used for stamina briefly) perhaps with other interesting effects.

Master Blade would then be moved to tier 4 in the advanced Firestorm tree, possibly renamed.
Still need ideas for the other 3 talents, with a "Fighting spellcasters" type theme, along with Air/Fire type effects, possibly more focused on mana use.

Stoneriver would be "Fighting lots of melee" type theme, with water/earth type effects, possibly more focused on stamina use.

[Hirumakai]

Random advanced tree ideas.

Firestorm tree.
Tier 1:
Passive which improves Air Stance/Fire Stance.

Air Stance gains an on hit effect which slows casting speed.
Fire stance gains a manaburn type effect, potentially affecting a variety of resources.
Provides 10/20/30/40/50% silence resistance.

Tier 2:
Mana sustain which improves movement speed and slows down incoming projectiles.

Tier 3: Storm of Fire: Activated mana talent. Ranged Ball AoE dealing Fireburn and Lightning damage, putting 1 or more spell talents/runes/taints on cooldown randomly.

Tier 4: Firestorm Blade: Roll Accuracy - 20/15/10/5/0 vs Spell power to deflect spells (as current Master Blade) Increase ranged defense to Accuracy.
Mana sustain for 50.


Stoneriver tree:
Tier 1:
Passive which improves Water Stance/Earth Stance

Water stance deals cold damage upon being hit by an enemy, with 5/10/15/20/25% (capped at 25%) chance of an iceblock occurring against the attacking enemy.
Earth stance deals a bleed damage effect upon being hit which also reduces attack/damage combat values of the attacker.
Provides 10/20/30/40/50% disarm resistance.

Tier 2:
Stamina sustain. Provides 1/2/3/4/5% evasion for each adjacent enemy (hard cap at max 40%).

Tier 3:Seismic smash. Stamina activate. Deal physical damage in radius 1 AoE, knockback enemies, and create a stone wall surrounding the player for 1/1/2/2/3 turns.

Tier 4: Stoneriver Blade: Provides melee damage reflection, 4/8/12/16/20% of rolled damage from a weapon is sent back to its source in melee range.
Stamina sustain for 50.